Forum Content and Purpose

[shaggy3131]

I'm going to make some statements that may not be popular or well-received by some members. This forum is certainly a place where we can give and receive information and help. Goodness knows, it's been a great education for me as the new owner of a CS and for that I am thankful. I regularly read and reread posts to solve my boat problems.

However, I do not believe the CS forum is the proper place to vent our frustrations with dealers, dealers' services, or dealers' products. It certainly is not the place to voice our rage and rage fantasies. It is a place where we can discuss the problems we are having with dealers and products and get guidance on how to seek solutions for those problems. I also do not believe the forum is the place to post our communications with dealers.

In my old age (there are a lot of scars getting here) I believe we can best solve our problems by taking the high road, by being assertive when needed but not aggressive, by being calm and persistent, by addressing issues directly and factually, by avoiding personality squabbles with service people, and by treating others the way we would like to be treated, whether they treat us well or not. Pi__ing matches rarely, if ever, solve anything. I understand why and how we can get revved up over problems and with uncooperative, avoidant service providers. We can best solve the problems by helping them move toward solutions. When we are assaultive and insulting toward them, they discount us and withdraw from the problem-solving effort, just as we do when we are assaulted and insulted.

I hope we and the CS Owners Forum can continue to take the high road in life, love, and boating.

Best wishes,
Aubrey Stone

[Fillet1]

Aubrey,

Thank you for your thoughts. Your post is obviously directed towards 1967JRD's rant about his ongoing dealer problems that he has experienced. While I agree fundamentally with your "high road" philosophy in resolving my own issues, 1967JRD's post made me chuckle, because we all have wanted to do to somebody exactly what he described. Apparently, his tactics worked, as the owner offered him a new boat. To each his own.

I feel (and I am not the rule maker around here) that I'd like to know which dealers to avoid, who has the best prices, who has poor service etc. Of course there are two sides to every story, and usually an unreasonable complaint is easily exposed. But the benefit to members looking to buy cannot be overlooked.

[shaggy3131]

Fillet,

I also appreciate knowing about dealers, prices, services, and problem resolution history. This forum provides opportunity to exchange info about everything from dealers to accessories to techniques to fishing holes.

As you suggested I was somewhat responding to recent postings but more generally was responding to an occassional tendency on the forum to get carried away with negativity. I just want to encourage us all to continue making this forum the great exchange of information it is.

Thanks for your reminder of "to each his/her own." I certainly agree.

Aubrey

[Harry]

One other thing to add.
We not only hear the bad about Dealers, service, and such, but also the good.

OK, two other things, I like your concern and want to point out that at the bottom of every post there is a Report to moderator button.

If you think a topic has gone overboard or turned ugly, by all means use it. And bring it directly to someone attention, before it gets out of hand.

Again,
Thanks for your continued support, and the use of the site. We hope you like it.

[Slot-Machine]

As I read all of your comments on this i can only think of a few things.

Dealers sell boats to make money they dont care about you. just your $$$$$

Service people will try to give a quick cheap fix if it breaks you come back = $$$$

they have what we want which gives them the upperhand and they know this.

i have many times tried to catch more flies w/ honey and it has worked.
but when it comes to money there is no high road, people in this world have no morals and they will rob you blind or stick you with something you dont want.

I tell people all the time "Freedom of Speach also means Freedom to Listen" even if you dont like what is being said.

Wes

[Dave]

Easy Wes, hold on Brother… They ain’t ALL that way. I won’t argue that many businessmen are primarily after our money, that’s why they’re (primarily) in business. It’s nice however, when we find one that is genuinely concerned with our satisfaction and though they may be rare, good and honest businessmen are out there trying there best to be competitive and get our business, hopefully making enough to pay their overhead, cover payroll, insurance, employee benefits, taxes, deal with the grief both employees AND customers sometimes bring, and still end the year with a decent income to show for all the time and financial investment they have put at risk. Unfortunately, it’s become increasingly difficult to sort out the good from the bad in these most competitive times. That’s one of the great things about this forum – we get a chance to listen to the experiences of others.

Hope to meetcha soon – first round’s on me. Oh yeah, when can you get me a ride in a harrier ???

Semper Fi,
Dave

[brevoortia]

This is a great conversation, and its interesting to me to witness the evolution of a forum like CSO.

I agree with Aubrey(shaggy), but I also want to utilize the collective experiences of this group of CS owners when I go purchase a boat. I think its possible that we can benefit from both of these points at the same time.

To ask for ideas, suggestions and input when dealing with a situation is perfectly acceptable. But it goes too far if there are threats of physical acts of violence. Constructive criticism is also acceptable, yet sometimes people make personal attacks toward other members. This is a community, people tend to forget that because they can't see each other. That's the number one problem I see with internet forums, they can often degrade to a level that wouldn't be reached in person.

Why don't we propose a set of ground rules on posting experiences with dealers. Maybe defining these rules will allow us to clearly see if someone has posted something in order to hurt a dealer they just don't like, or if they are simply informing the rest of us about how to work with the salesperson. I don't pretend to know what wording would be most effective in this process. But coming up with a statement, and then getting some kind of consensus approval on the ground rules might be the way to go.

Ideas? Do you think this is a good approach Harry?

-brevoortia

[Harry]

To ask for ideas, suggestions and input when dealing with a situation is perfectly acceptable. But it goes too far if there are threats of physical acts of violence. Constructive criticism is also acceptable, yet sometimes people make personal attacks toward other members. Why don't we propose a set of ground rules on posting experiences with dealers. Maybe defining these rules will allow us to clearly see if someone has posted something in order to hurt a dealer they just don't like, or if they are simply informing the rest of us about how to work with the salesperson. I don't pretend to know what wording would be most effective in this process. But coming up with a statement, and then getting some kind of consensus approval on the ground rules might be the way to go.

Ideas? Do you think this is a good approach Harry?

-brevoortia


As far as physical acts of violence, I think JRD was just blowing of steam, rather have him do that here than in the showroom or around the salesmans neck.

sometimes people make personal attacks toward other members
This kind of behavior will not be tolerated and a code of conduct was outlined, and everyone that has joined the site had check off the little box in the agreement, or they would not have been granted access to the site. It if you get caught doing such a thing you get warned, if it's a constant you get banned. Again,I encourage anyone that feels threatened or harrassed to use the "report post to moderator" button.

I know a few admins who run some succesfull larger sites. I will be in contact with them to see how they handle vendor bashing and go from there.

Personally , I like hearing the good and bad, ONLY if it's the truth (this is where it gets tricky).
After getting to know folks, even if it is from behind a computer screen you can get a good idea if there being straight shooter.
If someone here I trust says dealer "X" did them wrong. I would take there opinion to have substance. If a guy I never heard of, or just joined comes here slamming a dealer, I would take it with a grain of salt, not knowing him too well.

There's 3 sides to every story, yours, mine, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.
However if 50 people post that dealer "X" did them wrong, then that shows a trend, & that would be bad for the guys business and it wouldn't be long before he's out of business.

I don't want to say it's right or wrong to slight a dealer, or say it's ok to come here and post your grevinece's, that's NOT WHY I BUT THIS WEBSITE TOGETHER. Just the common goal of Members find the dealer thats best for them. This is a board for the Members....

We're all grown ups here and should be able to read through the lines. I've seen sites where people ask questions about electrical work on the internet, Some of the responses surely woould have wound up getting someone killed. It amazes me that people would rely on such things from an internet message board from a total stranger, that could possibly get them killed. That's why they have liscensed electical contractors !!! Just use common sense, guys at least were not asking electrical questions ............. yet ... ;D


This isn't a babysitting session.

If something is hateful, hurtful and/or slanderous(sp) to a person,group or even a dealer. It will be dealt with.

Harry

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

To ask for ideas, suggestions and input when dealing with a situation is perfectly acceptable. But it goes too far if there are threats of physical acts of violence. Constructive criticism is also acceptable, yet sometimes people make personal attacks toward other members. Why don't we propose a set of ground rules on posting experiences with dealers. Maybe defining these rules will allow us to clearly see if someone has posted something in order to hurt a dealer they just don't like, or if they are simply informing the rest of us about how to work with the salesperson. I don't pretend to know what wording would be most effective in this process. But coming up with a statement, and then getting some kind of consensus approval on the ground rules might be the way to go.

Ideas? Do you think this is a good approach Harry?

-brevoortia


As far as physical acts of violence, I think JRD was just blowing of steam, rather have him do that here than in the showroom or around the salesmans neck.

sometimes people make personal attacks toward other members
This kind of behavior will not be tolerated and a code of conduct was outlined, and everyone that has joined the site had check off the little box in the agreement, or they would not have been granted access to the site. It if you get caught doing such a thing you get warned, if it's a constant you get banned. Again,I encourage anyone that feels threatened or harrassed to use the "report post to moderator" button.

I know a few admins who run some succesfull larger sites. I will be in contact with them to see how they handle vendor bashing and go from there.

Personally , I like hearing the good and bad, ONLY if it's the truth (this is where it gets tricky).
After getting to know folks, even if it is from behind a computer screen you can get a good idea if there being straight shooter.
If someone here I trust says dealer "X" did them wrong. I would take there opinion to have substance. If a guy I never heard of, or just joined comes here slamming a dealer, I would take it with a grain of salt, not knowing him too well.

There's 3 sides to every story, yours, mine, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.
However if 50 people post that dealer "X" did them wrong, then that shows a trend, & that would be bad for the guys business and it wouldn't be long before he's out of business.

I don't want to say it's right or wrong to slight a dealer, or say it's ok to come here and post your grevinece's, that's NOT WHY I BUT THIS WEBSITE TOGETHER. Just the common goal of Members find the dealer thats best for them. This is a board for the Members....

We're all grown ups here and should be able to read through the lines. I've seen sites where people ask questions about electrical work on the internet, Some of the responses surely woould have wound up getting someone killed. It amazes me that people would rely on such things from an internet message board from a total stranger, that could possibly get them killed. That's why they have liscensed electical contractors !!! Just use common sense, guys at least were not asking electrical questions ............. yet ... ;D


This isn't a babysitting session.

If something is hateful, hurtful and/or slanderous(sp) to a person,group or even a dealer. It will be dealt with.

Harry



What he said. 010 010 010 010 010 010 012 012 012 012 012 012 012 012

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

This forum is very good up to know.Take a look on some other ones. ;D ;D ;D

We are here for the learning experience and trade info and ideas.If a dealer does something bad to me, or he acts like the dealer we all know now, i will tell my friends(you peoplee) wright a way so we can get this resolved or we all k$%k his a&* ;D ;D ;D 013

[strike hold]

I have looked at this thread alot and have seen some very good issues talked about. I think it is great that we all can come here to find out the good or bad about certain vendors. I must agree that we should not degrade any one of them with harsh words. We do however need to keep eachother informed of those who do shady things. Strength in numbers! 012 012 012

[o2bfishn]

Being a member here from day one I like to add my 2 cents.

The members who use this site ARE very helpful and friendly to one another, I have not read anything that sounds like an personal attack on any member from another. Remember I have read every post from day one to about X-mas this past year. Lots of ideas and info flow through here, all free for the taking or not, its up to you.

I believe JRD was venting steam, he didn't really mean harm to the dealer, anyone would vent too if they were in his place. We have moderators to keep the peace if needed and don't need anything else really, any rules would limit us all as members. Using common sense when posting is all you need to do.

Posting about dealers and venders, the good, bad and ugly helps us all. To limit the free flow of info on this or any topic would be wrong and harmful the the site as well. Just watch your own conduct here as you would anywhere else in pubic. That is all that we as members have to do to keep this site as good as it has always been.

With all most 600 members-friends on this site I have yet to see a problem, except maybe when Shakespears called me a salt crusted old timer or a squid squeezer, I can't remember which. I'll have to ask him next time we have a beer togther. ( He really can't catch any fish you know).



o2bfishn

[Dave]

Well, as Shake would say: "Look what the dogs drug in." ;D o2, I've missed you my friend. As I read down your post I was fearing the doc's might have removed your funny bone... but naaaaaah, from one master baiter to another, you still got it. 010 010 010

Welcome back 012

Dave

[Shakespeare]

Poking my head in here real quick... don't want to stray too far off topic.

o2, good to see you pal!

Carry on guys!

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

O2, why were you away? I might of missed the thread,if was published..Welcome back anyway, even though i don't know why. 012 012

[bigfish3]

salt crusted old timer or a squid squeezer

I am going to use these!!!

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

o2B,It was squid squeezer. ;D 012 012 012