Major problems with my new 20JVX...>>>

[1967JRD]

Okay guys, I need help here. Maybe I just don't understand Carolina Skiffs or maybe I just don't understand my salesman or my Marina people.

I approached my sales guy with a request, I want a fishing boat, center console, that will fish the flats & skinny water and still be viable to travel out a few miles to my favorite rock formations. He insisted on the CS 20JVX. He claimed it could run in 9inches of water and with the 90hp engine it would "hop" right on plane and scoot over the flats with ease. I loved the idea when I saw the boat. Short gunwales so you can load/unload the boat from the ground, lite weight, economical on fuel (Suzi DF90), simple and easy to keep clean. I ordered it with a Minn Kota RT55, a Garmin 440, Lowrance VHF that is removeable, Sony Explode AM/FM CD system, dual live wells in the rear & 27 gallon gas tank.

So the nightmare begins. The VHF was installed without a 2way plug on the power cord so it could be removeable. The Garmin sonar/depth finder doesn't work over 5 mph. They installed a 24V RT80 instead of a 12V RT55 (with only 1 battery). The Sony stereo was wired so the memory was erased everytime you turned the boat off. The live wells do not function over 5 mph as well. Took it back to the dealer and the repaired / replaced everything including putting the proper RT55 on.

I fished the boat a couple of times so far. Fairly happy with everything but I soon found out that I had to be very careful in skinny (and I use that term loosely) water, almost as much as my 4200lb Bow Rider that draws 34". I killed the prop the first day out at O'Connell Rock just NW of Hernando Beach channel. We were at a +1.0 tide and 200 yards SW from the O'Connell marker when my prop made contact. I fished that rock area 50 times in my Chaparral and never touched bottom. I didn't measure the water under the boat, but my less than trusty Garmin claimed 3.6 feet. I chalked it up to low tide and a 1.5 to 2 foot chop.

Fast forward to today. I fished the area just north of the Anclote Power Plant in Tarpon Springs. We found a few spots that we liked the looks of. Finishing up our day and idling along at 4.5mph in what the Garmin said was 2.5 feet of water I throttle up. The motor dug into the mud and wouldn't get us on plane. Okay, maybe it shallowed up under us. I waited at idle for 100 yds or so, I throttled up again and the skeg was again in the mud. I'd say the motor was tilted up 25% of its travel. At this point I lost my friggin mind. I got out my aluminum check it stick and jammed it in the water... 31 freakin inches of water and this hunk cannot jump up on plane!!!! I am telling you guys, I lost my freakin mind. You cannot trim up and farther because the damn thing cavitates like a SOB and if you go father down, your are in the mud in 31 INCHES OF WATER!!!

I was told by the salesman, no need for a jackplate (which he is probably right because you couldn't get the motor any higher it already cavitates 70% of the time now!), the boat will jump on plane from a foot of water and when on plane you'll have NO TROUBLE navigating 9 inches of water. Well I am here to tell you, this boat DOES NONE OF THOSE THINGS! It will float in 9 inches, you can move with the trolling motor in 9 inches, but you ain't starting the outboard and getting out of there under power... NOT HAPPENING.

I photoshopped a picture of a 20JVX to show you guys the water line to the best of my ability. This is how she sits in the water.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/Skiff-in-water.jpg

Anyone else see anything wrong with this???

[lakebiker]

Yeah, a couple if that pic is correct as to the boat sitting in the water.

1. Ain't no way the scuppers are supposed to be that low in the water, can't self bail.
2. Garmins are for GPS systems. You will find VERY few depth finders that will read less than 2', don't care who makes them. You might need a different transducer.
3. From the pic, it looks like everything is installed to far towards the rear of the boat. No way should it have that much draft sitting.
4. When taking off, trim IN, not out.
5. I'd drill some holes to make sure that hull is not full of water.

I'm sure theres more, just a few first impressions. Good luck getting it figured out. 001

[brokebeach5011]

I would say that the trailer was still attached to boat.That's why it is hitting bottom.lol.Just kidding

brokebeach5011

[lakebiker]

Oh yeah, just noticed that nice new Suzi 90f ya got on her too. You need to adjust the transducer. It's not uncommon for a CS NOT to read above about 20mph or so but 5mph, no, that ain't right.
That boat should get up on plane easy in 31" of water. Now, 9" it will (should) run in at WOT but, don't think it will jump out and plane that shallow.
Something is making that thing draft tooooooo much. 006
Ok, for now, I'm still reading the post and looking at the pic.
012

[lakebiker]

From the CS web site, 20 JVX CC 006


LOA .............20'
DRAFT .............4"-8"
BEAM .............78"
GUNNEL HEIGHT .............19"
TRANSOM HEIGHT .............15"/20"/25"
DEADRISE .............0
BOAT WEIGHT .............850 lb.
WEIGHT CAPACITY .............1120 lb.
MAX PEOPLE .............8
MAX HORSEPOWER .............90 HP

And just guessing, with the motor trimed down, the cavitation plate is going to be way too high. I think they stuck you with a short shaft engine.
I believe If I had a written contract with what you stated, I'd be looking for a lawyer.
I still don't understand that draft you have??????????? Check for water in the hull.

[Slab]

Take a look at how my 1780 drafts. You can see the drain plug clear of the water by about 2 inches. I think your JVX is a little heavy in the rear.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sbalke9/1780Dlx/photo#5149245675790478882

slab

[1967JRD]

Yeah, a couple if that pic is correct as to the boat sitting in the water.

1. Ain't no way the scuppers are supposed to be that low in the water, can't self bail.

My particular JVX has no scuppers.



2. Garmins are for GPS systems. You will find VERY few depth finders that will read less than 2', don't care who makes them. You might need a different transducer.
It just won't read when underway, in ANY depth. My cheapie 215 Hummingbird in my Chaparral works perfectly all the time!



3. From the pic, it looks like everything is installed to far towards the rear of the boat. No way should it have that much draft sitting.

The actual draft (I'll post some photos later today) is about 2 inches below the tie down rings on the transom and the water actually covers the bottom 2 bolts on the engine mount.



4. When taking off, trim IN, not out.

That's great in theory and all but when the skeg is dragging in the mud in 31" of water what else can you do but try and trim out to get underway?



5. I'd drill some holes to make sure that hull is not full of water.

That's going to happen AFTER I talk with Carolina Skiff AND my dealer. CS will be back from vacation on the 2nd. I'll be on the phone at 9:01am!



I'm sure theres more, just a few first impressions. Good luck getting it figured out. 001


And thanks for the perspective fellas. I am just wound up about this. Nothing like buying a brand new boat and just having every single thing the salesman claimed it could do, NOT be able to do. Then to have the boat improperly rigged to start with, I am just discouraged.

Oh, and I am convinced it has to be water between the hulls. There is no way this boat was sitting this low in the water the day I sea trialed it. Granted we didn't run it in skinny water that day, but there is no way the boat drafted so much on take off. It feels like the damn thing is doing a wheelie now, on the test day it shot straight forward and on plane in 1.5 seconds (I timed it repeatedly) with 3 200lb guys in the boat. Now you hammer the throttle and the nose climbs up what feels like 3 or 4 feet and the stern squats down what seems like 2 feet.

If he says trim tabs or some other reactive offering, you guys will read about me in the newspaper. I'll be the one who gets arrested for beating a salesguy with a Suzuki 90!

[1967JRD]

Fellas, here are a few images I found on the net. These very accurately depict the way my 20JVX ride in the water. I know these are NOT photos of a 20JVX, but none-the-less, this is about my my 20JVX looks like in the water.

Of course these images disturb me somewhat. Am I to think that all CSs ride this deep in the water? Does this guy have water in his hull and he doesn't know it? Makes me wonder....

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/carolina6.jpg
This is exactly what my boat feels like when slugging along, trying to get on plane while dragging the mud.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/carolina3.jpg
Look at where the water line is. This is about as close as it gets to depict my boat.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/carolina1.jpg
If I didn't know better, I'd say someone snapped a photo of us fishing today!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/pp.jpg
For reference, here is a photo of the JVX. Notice where the water line would be...

[1967JRD]

Maybe this will help. Here are the actual photos of my 20JVX. I lightly rinsed her down last night, but the water marks still appear on the transom.
The watermark on the transom is 13.5" above the bottom of the hull. When measured from the watermark to the skeg with the motor full down, that number is a staggering 30.5".


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/watermark---transom.jpg
Watermark clearly visible just below the tie-down ring.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/watermark---transom2.jpg
Wider angle shot of the transom to give perspective.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/sideview.jpg
Here is where it hurts! Look at the tie-down ring and compare the watermark and the amount of draft the hull is consuming.
This one also give you some perspective of the engine shaft length.

[lakebiker]

The only good thing I can see in the last photos is you did get your Suzi instead of the Johnnyrude!! Sorry, being a smart *** this morning.
Something is not right with that boat and for sure, I'm not a boat expert although I've messed around and owned at least one for the past 35 years, currently having 3.
I've got a 198 DLX and it sits somewhat like Slabs at draft if not a little higher, less draft, maybe a little, but close to his. For sure, your's is NOT 4-8" as per the CS web site. I admit, I'm not up to speed on the JVX's but I thought all CS's were self bailing, no way without scuppers. You can find MANY threads here and other CS web sites with folks complaining about depth finders not working at speeds. The bottom on your skiff is nothing like your other boat, flat and slick. It's took me 3 years of messing around with HIGH dollar depth finders (4) to get one to read over 20mph and now I've got a special made Airmar ducer on it with a Furuno FCV-600L, top read speed, around 23mph and I loose bottom. Your's looks like an Airmar, maybe only need to mess around with it a bit with the height and angle but still, don't expect much over 20mph although there is a post here somewhere from flboy or something like that where he moved his ducer all the way to the outside of his boat and claims it reads at WOT. I've not tried that yet as my trailer runners are in the way. Last, if those pics of the "other" boat is any indication of what a JVX is supposed to do while on the water, well I'd not be happy either. I'd start with trying to get the shop owner to go with you back for a water test and let him see what it's doing and get his opinion. My opinion, I'd be more pissed off than you are. It's not unusual to find water in the hull on a new CS. I was there the day my dealer installed the first depth finder and when he drilled the first hole, water came out, not much but some. Good luck with it and keep us posted as to what you find.

[Harry]

WOW, That sucks man !!

It sure sounds as if you got water in the boat or something holding it down if she sits that low. How far away is your dealer? I would take it back and have them take a look. I doubt CS is going to be able to do anything over the phone and will suggest you take it to a CS dealer to have a look at.
No bailers on that model 006 Whats up with that? It looks from the photo that they have them on the transom near the outside edge, where the gunnel rolls under the boat. What is that dot I'm seeing there a sticker or something?

As for the Garmin, I had the 498c on my 198 DLV and it read bottom fine at WOT. I had to adjust the tilt of the transducer until I found the correct spot it liked, but it was only one click off from where I mounted it. From your picture it looks like you might try tilting it (back end of ducer up) a click or two and give that a try.

Good luck and keep us posted.

PS,
You just bought this boat a few weeks ago right?

[tommybuoy]

Get the rig weighed. Backout the trailer, eng, fuel, accessories, etc. weights and see how the hull wt. compares to CS spec. That's what the Boston Whaler boys do w/ the older ones that are know for soaking up water. In your case it's trapped water. In any case, scales don't usually lie (though some wives might disagree!!).

[Randell]

Great piont Tommybouy. Any Large truckstop will have scales. For a few dollars
you can calculate the weight very easily.

Randell

[1967JRD]

Thanks fellas for all your insight. And I hate to sound like a broken record, but we fished it again today and today takes the cake. Truly does.

Harry you are right, only bought it a couple weeks ago.

Anyway, back to today. We are just outside Hernando Beach channel almost to the tripod (I am too scared to cut out of the channel with this "flats" boat!) I go to throttle up and guess what? The motor dies. Fuel injected, high tech, full boogie 4 stroke Suzuki, dies. Crank and crank and nothing. Okay, I know my way around a toolbox pretty well. Felt like fuel starvation. I grab the priming bulb (priming bulb on an injected motor?) I squeeze, nothing. Okay it obviously has an air leak. Nice the boat is 2 weeks old and after all the other CHIT, now this. I have my fishing buddy squeeze the bulb while I listen carefully. Sounds like it's near or at the tank. I give all the hose clamps the once over and the bulb firms up. Fire it up and run about 20 minutes to where we are going to fish. Fish for an hour, go to leave, it fires up fine but when we are settled in the boat I grab a handful and it craps the bed again. Bulb exercise #2. I still hear it at or near the tank. I look closely at the fuel line. It's that rubber hose that has an outer and an inner tube with nylon webbing between them. The inner part is so dry rotted and cracked I am suprised it runs at all! No wonder there is an air leak! I grab a handful of hose and bend it, it crackles in my hand it is so dry rotted. Now I am off the ricter scale. I have had it with this damn boat. We decide to head in, while hovering around the boat ramp waiting for a spot it dies. Well now it's an issue because there is wind, current and other boats. I am pissed beyond belief now. I kick the tank (childish I know but I think the culprit is a leaky pickup tube in the tank) Bulb squeezing frantically we get it fired, I grab a spot and as we are sliding in the dock, it dies again and we slam, I say slam but it was more like a very moderate to firm collision with the dock. Can you imagine my face when I see the chunk of gelcoat busted and scarred up from the impact of this pile of crap???

Guys I am in a bad way here. I am ready to crush someones windpipe. I feel like driving this hunk of garbage thru their front window. They have ruined my holiday (many days off to spend fishing) and pissed me off so bad, nothing short of a brand new boat and a few $$$ in my pocket will fix me. I already took my $$$ stash out and divided it up amongst my fishing pal and my wife. Bail money, I'll need it Wednesday. If those guys so much as try to patronize me in any fashion, I'll crush my salesmans jugular with my left wheile beating his boss with my right.

I am pissed off to the max. Carolina Skiff & Sunray Marine had better do the right thing. This is worse than any lemon law suit I have ever heard. I am beyond livid at this point.


Sorry to vent fellas, but I just cannot take anymore....

[Harry]

I'd be pissed to Bro. I hope they do the right thing. I would imagine this is a dealer issue to handle, but that's just a guess on my part.

We have people from CS that read this site. I hope they see it and can help or chime in.

PS,
I'm sending you a PM.

[o2bfishn]

All of your problems can be traced back to your dealer not rigging your boat right.


Water in the hull, (transducer holes not sealed with 5200).
Motor not adjusted on hull properly, (cav plate approx. 1" below hull bottom).
All other options not installed properly or not what you ordered.


Just a warning to you still looking to buy a new skiff, READ the threads on this site about dealers, flat bottom boats are not set up like vee bottom boats, some dealers know what they are doing, alot don't. Two or three dealers are very well liked by all of their customers, others have had alot of problems. Choose carefully.


1967JRD, sorry to hear about your troubles, I think your dealer has made your skiff problems, not CS. If you took a loan out on it talk to the banker. Years ago (1978) I had major problems with a new truck right out of the box, dealer and ford were no help, sat down with the bank laid out the problem and my legal options in english, he asked to let him have a try at it and bingo people were jumping all over themselfs to make things right. Just a thought. Good luck....keep us posted.


o2bfishn

[lakebiker]

"Water in the hull, (transducer holes not sealed with 5200)."

Not always the case. My boat was brand new and I watched the dealer drill the FIRST hole for the depth finder and water came out of the hull. ???
I don't believe it would leak that much in a few hours of fishing. ???
Cav plate should be as close to even with the bottom of the boat as you can get it.
If you have those damn quick connects from your fuel tank back to your engine, when you replace those rotton lines, GET RID OF THEM TOO. Make it a direct fit from your tank to the engine. I about didn't make it home last summer over those damn things leaking/sucking air. Oh yeah, if you need help with the bail money, let us know. Sorry you're not from around these parts as we got a local Sheriff on this board.
012

[Fillet1]

That boat should in no way sit that low in the water! Its odd that you found another pic of a JVX that sits just as low. It would be pretty coincidental that both your and the boat in the pic have water in the hull. Maybe its a design issue? On a 20 foot boat you would need alot of water in the hull to make it ride that deep. The boat is in danger of capsizing in some chop if it sits as low as those pics. The waterline should be a foot below where you indicated.

Its also a bit odd that there are no scupper holes in the boat. Is there a sump well in the transom with a drain plug?

[1967JRD]

That boat should in no way sit that low in the water! Its odd that you found another pic of a JVX that sits just as low. It would be pretty coincidental that both your and the boat in the pic have water in the hull. Maybe its a design issue? On a 20 foot boat you would need alot of water in the hull to make it ride that deep. The boat is in danger of capsizing in some chop if it sits as low as those pics. The waterline should be a foot below where you indicated.

Its also a bit odd that there are no scupper holes in the boat. Is there a sump well in the transom with a drain plug?



Well I hope you can clearly see the watermark on the transom, I am not making this stuff up! The measuring tape tells the tale. From the waterline to the bottom of the skeg is 30.5" with the motor fully in. From the waterline to the bottom of the hull, it's between 13 & 14 INCHES!
And yes there is a sump/bilge with a bilge pump and a plug.


For those who asked about the cavitation plate, I'd say that when the motor is full down/in, the cav plate is almost perfectly aligned with the bottom of the hull.

One thing I did notice is the transducer for the sonar/GPS is mounted in such a way that it is entirely ABOVE the bottom of the hull. I was always inclined to believe that you mount them so the seam or line on the transducer is even with or level to the bottom of the hull. In other words, if you press a yardstick against the bottom of the hull it will NOT touch the lowest portion of the transducer. There is probably a 1/2" air gap.

Once again, thanks to everyone for their insight, thoughts and perspective. You guys will never know how much that it is needed right now. I am so ready to blow a friggin gasket...

Happy New Year!

[Shakespeare]

JRD... not that I'm qualified to be the voice of reason, but I'd humbly recommend that you overcome your anger prior to presenting this problem to the dealer or manufacturer. We've all been in similar circumstances and it's a real pisser, that's for sure. I'm not trying to diminish the magnitude of your issues, but I believe that a firm objective stance will produce better results than starting a confrontation. It may take some time and a lot of patience but if you work the problem correctly you should be able to bring about a satisfactory resolution. I think we all feel your pain.

Mike C.

[Harry]

One thing about your transducer. (minor issue for you at this point) but my transducer had a line on the side of it (from front to back) That line should be even with the bottom of the boat (or your yard stick)

That keeps the bottom half of the ducer IN the water while running. If you have a 1/2 " gap, then the transducer is out of the water, she'll never read bottom for you while running. There should be slots on the mounting bracket that will let you lower to the correct height.

Hopefully this will bring your temp down and keep you from (personally) blowing a gasket ;D. At this point I would say that's some good news.... 012

[1967JRD]

JRD... not that I'm qualified to be the voice of reason, but I'd humbly recommend that you overcome your anger prior to presenting this problem to the dealer or manufacturer. We've all been in similar circumstances and it's a real pisser, that's for sure. I'm not trying to diminish the magnitude of your issues, but I believe that a firm objective stance will produce better results than starting a confrontation. It may take some time and a lot of patience but if you work the problem correctly you should be able to bring about a satisfactory resolution. I think we all feel your pain.

Mike C.


Mike you are 100% correct. I just have so many other issues going on that I needed my "fix" (fishing) terribly bad this holiday season. The wife informed me just prior to Christmas she is leaving right after the holidays and 2 weeks before Christmas I was basically forced out of my job that I had set my mind to that I'd be at forever. So I am a little stressed right now to say the least!!! Not crying mind you, just leveling with you guys.

I appreciate your honesty & everyones input.

[Fillet1]

Ditto what Harry said about the transducer. Also the trailing edge can be lower than the front edge but the front edge cannot be lower than the trailing edge. The best way to figure out the problem is to weigh the boat as others have said. The motor is the right shaft length if the cav plate is level with the bottom of the hull.

Good Luck!

[tommybuoy]

Oh boy, I bet you can't wait for this yr. to end. Hopefully the new yr. will treat you better. Back to your problem. As a professional negotiator w/ yrs of experience, your best approach is to use the fact to your advantage. Dealing from emmotions won't work (may feel good for a short time, but you'll loose the battle). You need to gather up the facts (pictures, weights, etc) and ask the dealer to help ypu understand why the boat is slow low in the water. This approach doesn't put him on the defensive, rather he can feel try to feel important by helpinf you understand. If he can't, he'll end up seeing that you truely do make a good point and will try to find the answer. If he does, he'll think he's the hero. If on the otherhand, you go in ranting and raving, he'll naturally get defensive (only human nature kicking in) and guess what you loose even if you're right.

Back to the facts: As I mentioned in an earlier reply, get the rig weighed. If it's too heavy, the weight has to come from some place. Water in the hull appears logical, but prove it by weighing. Another thought I had is that your original assumption of the boat/motor combo may be suspect. Had this problem when I bought an engine for a Simmon's Sea Skiff. Everyone talks about HP, but few consider weight. (With so many scuppers being under water of late, more MFG's are stating what the max weight of the eng. should be.) Consider this: a Suzuki DF90TL weighs 416 Lbs., while a new conventional 2 stroke Yamaha weighs only 261 Lbs. If I looked up your boat spec's correctly, it only weighs 850 lb. That eng. you have on the transom is approx. half the boat weight! Granted the capacity of your boat is 1120 lbs., but that's a lot of weight on the transom. Would have to hear from someone with the same baot + eng. wait, but don't assume it's the right eng. only because the HP doesn't exceed the rating. Ask CS what the max weight on the transom should be. Experience has shown me time and again that when all else fails, go back to your original assumption and you'll find it to be wrong. In this case you naturally assume that the eng must be the right one, hey the dealer says it was. Can he tell you how many such combo's he's sold??? In the meantime get the rig weighed. Happy New year.......

[samurai361]

I just compared the JVX20 specs with those of the next closest boat in their line, the 19DLX (1965) which is similar in all listed measurements.

The JVX is a foot longer, but the hull weights, and beams are nearly identical. What I did notice is a DRAMATIC difference in the listed weight capacities of the two boats. The DLX has a capacity of 1710, while the JVX has a capacity of 1120. That is a HUGE difference. Since the 90 Suzuki is a MONSTER of a motor, weighing in at over 400 lbs, I'd say that the culprit is a motor that is too heavy for the boat. It may not be the whole problem, but I'd bet it's the biggest offender since it's nearly HALF the listed capacity. Add 2 bodies at 200 a piece, and your almost there, with nothing in the boat. Your T/M, the battery is probably 60 or 70 lbs, tackle and you're overloaded.

I think this might be a good place to start looking at solutions. I think 90 hp is fine for the boat, but that Suzuki is very heavy. The 70 weighs in at 357, so the answer may lie in a 2 stroke. The Yamaha 2 stroke 70 is just over 200 lbs, and is perfect for the 19 DLX.

Am I missing something?

[o2bfishn]

lakebiker,

You may be right about the amount of water getting in from the transducer holes, but JRD said that when he first tested out his boat it preformed great, so he is getting alot of water from somewhere. If it was filling up with rain water it needs to be a good size hole or crack in the floor to get that much water in the hull in the short time he owned the boat or alot of rain water sitting in the hull (plugs left in?).


JRD,

Remove the screws holding the transducer on and measure the water that comes out with a 5 gal. bucket. Also see if the holes were sealed with sealer and let us know what you find.


o2bfishn

[1967JRD]

I just compared the JVX20 specs with those of the next closest boat in their line, the 19DLX (1965) which is similar in all listed measurements.

The JVX is a foot longer, but the hull weights, and beams are nearly identical. What I did notice is a DRAMATIC difference in the listed weight capacities of the two boats. The DLX has a capacity of 1710, while the JVX has a capacity of 1120. That is a HUGE difference. Since the 90 Suzuki is a MONSTER of a motor, weighing in at over 400 lbs, I'd say that the culprit is a motor that is too heavy for the boat. It may not be the whole problem, but I'd bet it's the biggest offender since it's nearly HALF the listed capacity. Add 2 bodies at 200 a piece, and your almost there, with nothing in the boat. Your T/M, the battery is probably 60 or 70 lbs, tackle and you're overloaded.

I think this might be a good place to start looking at solutions. I think 90 hp is fine for the boat, but that Suzuki is very heavy. The 70 weighs in at 357, so the answer may lie in a 2 stroke. The Yamaha 2 stroke 70 is just over 200 lbs, and is perfect for the 19 DLX.

Am I missing something?




tommybuoy started me thinking about this weight issue. And obviously it got you thinking as well. I did some research on it and here is what I have come up with so far.

• 20 JVX weighs 850lbs.
• 1120lbs maximum allowable weight

• - 416lbs Suzuki DF90
• - 166.8lbs live wells filled (2-10 gal wells @ 8.34lbs)
• - 162.0lbs for fuel (27gal @ 6.0lbs)
• - 112.0lbs for 2 batterys (avg 24 series weighs 56lbs each)
• - 60lbs trolling motor & mount
• - 50lbs installed electronics, GPS, VHF, AM/FM/CD player, Etc.

• - 100lbs fishing gear, poles, tackle boxes, nets, anchor, etc
• - 25lbs safety gear, fire extinguisher, flares, horn, jackets, etc

• - 30lbs ice, drinks, food, etc
• - 20lbs additional fish cooler

At this point the boat has exceeded it's maximum allowable weight by 21.8lbs and nobody is even in the boat yet! Does anyone see what I see here?
I will get clarification from Carolina Skiff on the 1120lbs weight issue, but if the total amount allowed on that boat after it leaves the factory, meaning engine, options, people, etc is actually 1120lbs, then I believe I have a slam-dunk case here.

Can anyone clarify the whole maximum allowable weight issue? If not I'll know on Wednesday! I believe we have found our problem. And I think the reason I didn't notice anything on the first day out fishing is exactly that, it was the first day and like anything else, you are in the new-ness mode getting used to everything and the fact we were very lightly loaded.

Thanks guys!

[1967JRD]

Scratch my previous post. I looked at the tag on the boat, it is 1836 maximum allowable for engine, gear, people, etc. I'll redo the numbers and see where it falls.

• 20 JVX weighs 850lbs.
• 1836lbs maximum allowable weight

• - 416lbs Suzuki DF90
• - 166.8lbs live wells filled (2-10 gal wells @ 8.34lbs)
• - 162.0lbs for fuel (27gal @ 6.0lbs)
• - 112.0lbs for 2 batterys (avg 24 series weighs 56lbs each)
• - 80lbs trolling motor & mount
• - 50lbs installed electronics, GPS, VHF, AM/FM/CD player, Etc.

• - 100lbs fishing gear, poles, tackle boxes, nets, anchor, etc
• - 25lbs safety gear, fire extinguisher, flares, horn, jackets, etc

• - 40lbs ice, drinks, food, etc
• - 35lbs additional fish cooler

• - 300lbs (ole chunky me)
• - 200lbs my fishin’ buddy

That leaves us 149.2lbs ABOVE the maximum weight.

Also o2bfishn, I took the trasnducer off yesterday, no water and the screws were sealed.

Anyone want to trade a 25hour Suzuki DF90 for a equal value DF70 or Yami 2-smoke 90? LOL!

[lakebiker]

Scratch my previous post. I looked at the tag on the boat, it is 1836 maximum allowable for engine, gear, people, etc. I'll redo the numbers and see where it falls.

• 20 JVX weighs 850lbs.
• 1836lbs maximum allowable weight

• - 416lbs Suzuki DF90
• - 166.8lbs live wells filled (2-10 gal wells @ 8.34lbs)
• - 162.0lbs for fuel (27gal @ 6.0lbs)
• - 112.0lbs for 2 batterys (avg 24 series weighs 56lbs each)
• - 80lbs trolling motor & mount
• - 50lbs installed electronics, GPS, VHF, AM/FM/CD player, Etc.

• - 100lbs fishing gear, poles, tackle boxes, nets, anchor, etc
• - 25lbs safety gear, fire extinguisher, flares, horn, jackets, etc

• - 40lbs ice, drinks, food, etc
• - 35lbs additional fish cooler

• - 300lbs (ole chunky me)
• - 200lbs my fishin’ buddy

That leaves us 149.2lbs ABOVE the maximum weight.

Also o2bfishn, I took the trasnducer off yesterday, no water and the screws were sealed.

Anyone want to trade a 25hour Suzuki DF90 for a equal value DF70 or Yami 2-smoke 90? LOL!



Well, my theroies are busted as to water in the hull. I went back and looked at the pics of the "other" boat you have on here and with my sorry eyes, that boat looks like it's got a 40hp ?? on her and look how much draft it's got. I'm wondering now if the JVX series just do not have the flotation in them that the other CS's have?? ie: no scuppers, boat sits to low in the water for them?? One question, was that a factory pre rig or did the dealer install the engine? If the factory did the install, for sure they knew this was not a good set up and would be overloaded by the time you hit the water. Either case, I'm still with you. I'd be pissed. Have ya dealer take that 90 off and put her on a 198 DLX, then you'll love it.

[tommybuoy]

Bait Cutter,

Ask CS or the dealer what the max. allowable transom weight is. Don't focus solely on the total hull capacity. There's only so much weight a particular design can handle at the transom, beyond which handling problems arise, scuppers remain under water, etc. Next time you're at a boat show notice how many boats now have a sticker at/on the transom stating what the max. weight should be. The days of only considering max hp IMO are gone. Also, when a MFG claims their eng is light, it's only a comparison to someone else's. Also, don't get lulled into thinking all 2 strokes are light. The wt. of a Tohatsu 70 TLDI is probaly 50 lbs. more than a new carbed Yami. Good luck solving your problem.

[Fillet1]

Scratch my previous post. I looked at the tag on the boat, it is 1836 maximum allowable for engine, gear, people, etc. I'll redo the numbers and see where it falls.

• 20 JVX weighs 850lbs.
• 1836lbs maximum allowable weight

• - 416lbs Suzuki DF90
• - 166.8lbs live wells filled (2-10 gal wells @ 8.34lbs)
• - 162.0lbs for fuel (27gal @ 6.0lbs)
• - 112.0lbs for 2 batterys (avg 24 series weighs 56lbs each)
• - 80lbs trolling motor & mount
• - 50lbs installed electronics, GPS, VHF, AM/FM/CD player, Etc.

• - 100lbs fishing gear, poles, tackle boxes, nets, anchor, etc
• - 25lbs safety gear, fire extinguisher, flares, horn, jackets, etc

• - 40lbs ice, drinks, food, etc
• - 35lbs additional fish cooler

• - 300lbs (ole chunky me)
• - 200lbs my fishin’ buddy

That leaves us 149.2lbs ABOVE the maximum weight.

Also o2bfishn, I took the trasnducer off yesterday, no water and the screws were sealed.

Anyone want to trade a 25hour Suzuki DF90 for a equal value DF70 or Yami 2-smoke 90? LOL!



Well, my theroies are busted as to water in the hull. I went back and looked at the pics of the "other" boat you have on here and with my sorry eyes, that boat looks like it's got a 40hp ?? on her and look how much draft it's got. I'm wondering now if the JVX series just do not have the flotation in them that the other CS's have?? ie: no scuppers, boat sits to low in the water for them?? One question, was that a factory pre rig or did the dealer install the engine? If the factory did the install, for sure they knew this was not a good set up and would be overloaded by the time you hit the water. Either case, I'm still with you. I'd be pissed. Have ya dealer take that 90 off and put her on a 198 DLX, then you'll love it.


I am thinking the same thing. The lack of scupper holes means that the deck level is below the water level - even at rest with nobody on board. The JVX has a lower freeboard height than the DLX/DLV and maybe they lowered the deck to offset the lower freeboard. The lower deck would allow less flotation between it and the hull bottom.

[redfisherdave]

I think this is a classic example of a problem that has developed over the last few years with the gaining popularity of 4 stroke outboards. The boat manufacturers need to add data to the Coast Guard plates. Max weight, max people, max horse power, plus maximum motor weight. Compare any 4 stroke powered boat to a like boat with 2 stroke engine and the 4 stroke rides low on the back end. In many cases I would bet some of these transoms were never designed to carry all the extra weight of some of these 4 stroke engines. Until the technology improves for the engine manufacturers to make 4 strokes as light as 2 strokes, the boat manufacturers ought to include a recommended maximum motor weight on the Coast Guard plate.

[samurai361]

The JVX has a lower freeboard height than the DLX/DLV

The JVX has the same freeboard height as the similar in size DLX I used for comparison (19") but the DLV and the wider DLX hulls do have higher freeboard heights. That should not be the issue. You are correct about there being less flotation because of the cathedral hull design, but flotation doesn't affect how it floats unless it's full of water. It displaces water based on the weight and size of the hull, which in this case seem to be significant because of that enormous motor.

Also, I took my family out July 4th. I took everything out of the boat except safety gear and a some drinks and ice. There were several kids and we were right at max weight for the boat. I could BARELY get it to plane, and we sat a lot lower in the water than normally when it's just me and my dad. Weight makes a BIG difference in a small boat.

[tommybuoy]

"BEST OPERATING CAP"

Noticed in the Sundance (sorry to mention that word) catalog that in addition to listing "Max. Total Capacity" they also include a "Best Operating Capacity" wt. If you do the math, the "best" listings are about 80% +/- of the "Max". Size for size, their max is close to CS's listing so we're probably talking apples to apples. If you apply the same "Best" logic to CS, 1967JRD's boat is even more limited given the already heavy engine. Just more food for thought (hey, it's snowing up here in the north today, not much else to do!)

[1967JRD]

The JVX has a lower freeboard height than the DLX/DLV

The JVX has the same freeboard height as the similar in size DLX I used for comparison (19") but the DLV and the wider DLX hulls do have higher freeboard heights. That should not be the issue. You are correct about there being less flotation because of the cathedral hull design, but flotation doesn't affect how it floats unless it's full of water. It displaces water based on the weight and size of the hull, which in this case seem to be significant because of that enormous motor.

Also, I took my family out July 4th. I took everything out of the boat except safety gear and a some drinks and ice. There were several kids and we were right at max weight for the boat. I could BARELY get it to plane, and we sat a lot lower in the water than normally when it's just me and my dad. Weight makes a BIG difference in a small boat.




I will say this about the Suzi90, when you have enough water to hammer it, that engine is very powerful. Not that it's fast, it's not. Fully loaded we'll barely make 40mph flat out. But when you are cruising say 20mph and you just crack the throttle, you can feel the pull. It's pretty peppy like that.

Well tomorrow is the day, I'll be trying to make an appointment with the salesman & the owner. It's time to lay it all out just after I speak with skiff about transom weight...

[Harry]

Good luck Bro,
and be sure to let us know how ya make out ....

[FLboy3]

JRD i'm sorry for your problems. I hope it gets resolved quickly for ya. I'm supprised that we here on the forum havn't heard of this problem before as to the boat sitting so low in the water. The fact that you said that it was fine when you test road it seems to mean that something happened since you took possesion of the boat. Or you were so excited about the purchase that you didn't notice it? I would have guessed that water would be in the hull to cause that. But you say when you removed transducer screws nothing came out. WOW. I wonder why the boat you have pictured on page one has scupper holes and yours don't. I thought all CS's have scuppers. I can't imagine the boat pictured with the scuppers sitting that low in the water without the plugs in. It don't make since. I can't believe that the boat is suppose to sit that low in the water, even with the 90 4 stroke (for safety reasons). My brother has a 198 dlx with the same motor and it will float in 6" of water with the motor up. Your boat should too. Good luck and keep us posted........Darell

[sportskiff]

GADS!!!!
I'd think that pics of your boat (loaded and in the water, + annother 250# gentleman ((loose the 200# guy for the pic)), just for good sport.) would SERIOUSLY hamper the sales of a 20 FOOT BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know the saying, a pic is worth 1000 words. It is a truley bad thing that this happened to you ( how much sweet-talkin that salesman fella just have to do anyway???) and I hope that word gets out 'bout them 20 foot jvx sinkholes!!!!
(mabe they should................. ya'll know what I mean....)
JRD, I hope ya get it hammered out with em, like someone hear already said, the 198dlx would have fit the bill to the T and left you needing nought. Mabe ya'll can work a swap-hull-type thing?????
IF ya CAN work out something like that, let em mount the motor, and almpst everything else you can mount yourself, I think everything that's been thought of to date is on this site, a LOT of impressive stuff!!
It's a shame we didn't get ahold of you BEFORE your salesman did, and look up pal, you AIN'T the only one been talked into sumpthin, and you now have friends to help!!!!!! Hopefully you used the sugar -n- honey approach on all this, let us know fella,
Reggie

[1967JRD]

Talked with Carolina Skiff this morning first thing. They were amazed and VERY interested in the problem.
Customer Service seems to be on everyones mind this morning, especially after hearing the "R" word over the holidays. They, CS, were going to rig a 20JVX exactly like mine and test it. They said they would place cinder blocks on/in the hull in the locations I explained where we stow our gear, keep our coolers, where we stand when operating the boat etc. If they didn't have a Suzuki DF90 in inventory, they would simulate the 427lb weight (yes it's a 25" shaft motor, NOT a 20" like I had assumed). Worst case scenario, they will come and take mine to test with, which is fine by me if that is what it takes.

Next call was to the dealer and I was pleasantly suprised to hear his position. He says he will do "whatever" it takes to make me happy. I explained the gravity of the problem and they said if it takes swapping engines, re-rigging the boat, or anything else drastic, that's what he is prepared to do. I was floored by his reaction, I really was. Not that I wasn't or didn't think he was a good guy, but to just blurt out "what ever it takes, engine swap, re-rig, smart tabs, modifications, etc" I pleasnatly was shocked and happyily suprised to hear it. They also agreed to fix the damage to the boat caused by the engine crapping out at the dock.

I am taking the boat to them tomorrow to get the fuel starvation/air leak issue handled, then we will pursue the handling/balance/weight problem.

And FYI to all you Skiff owners or potential Skiff owners. When they make a claim about what depth water there respective hulls can operate in, that performance value is based on 50% total gross weight. This comes directly from the horses mouth. In my case that means 918lbs total rigged weight with gear, people, engine etc. Well it's easy to see that just the motor & I are almost 750 of that, leaving 168lbs. The boat carries 162lbs of fuel and 125lbs of livewell water (they say 10 gallon wells in the literature, but the manufacturer tells me 7.5 gallons per well actual water capacity). Easy to see why the boat is performing as described! Now add all the rigging, trolling motor, batteries, pumps, plumbing, coolers, fishing gear, people, etc, etc, etc....

So I started the year off with some great news. Now I hope, I just hope they carry-thru as they said they will. Skiff will be keeping a close eye on the situation. I have to report the dealers findings and solutions to them.

I'll keep you all updated.

[tommybuoy]

That's good news!!! Did you ever get out of them what the max. transom wt. should be??

[1967JRD]

That's good news!!! Did you ever get out of them what the max. transom wt. should be??


There is no max transom weight. Carolina Skiff does not have a spec for that. They were very shocked to find out a DF90 weighs 427lbs though!

[Harry]

010 010
Glad to see CS is looking into it and doing some of there own testing ... CS 013

Hope it all works out for you & it sounds like your dealer is stepping up too !!! 012

Hope this site has helped infoming others that there is hope and maybe help avoid problems for others in the future, who knows .... 006

[samurai361]

There is no max transom weight. Carolina Skiff does not have a spec for that.

I remember there being a decal on my 14' aluminum boat that said max engine weight of (I think) 175 lbs. I have a 25 Johnson 2 stroke that weighs in just over 100 and it makes the boat sit low. I couldn't even imagine a beefier engine back there.

They were very shocked to find out a DF90 weighs 427lbs though!

I was too. The 60 stroke I have is almost half that.

[o2bfishn]

Very glad CS wants to work with you to take care of things, but I'am not surprised, they seem to step up and fix most problems or complaints. I'am surprised that your dealer seems so willing to do whatever it takes to make you happy, few seem willing to provide this level of service.

I wonder if this site, our posted opinions of all dealers, has affected their and most other dealer service? Ya it has, the power of the web. 011 011


Good luck JDR, keep us posted.


o2bfishn

[FLboy3]

They were very shocked to find out a DF90 weighs 427lbs though!

The DF140 at 420 lbs weighs a few pounds less than the DF90 . I thought that was strange when I was checking out the engine weights

[1967JRD]

They were very shocked to find out a DF90 weighs 427lbs though!

The DF140 at 420 lbs weighs a few pounds less than the DF90 . I thought that was strange when I was checking out the engine weights


I am sure it's 427lbs for the 25" shaft motor as well. The 90/115/140 are all the same in external dimensions.

[FLboy3]

JRD thats what I would have thought also. Go to the suzuki website and check it out. 25" shaft, 140-420 lbs, 90-427 lbs, no s..t. Don't have a clue what would make the difference. Hey also, if you shoot me an e-mail with your telephone # I'll give you a call to go fishing while they fix your boat if the weather clears up and I can shake the flu bug I picked up while visiting my son in Charlotte NC over the holidays.

[Harry]

The 90/115/140 are the same block motor, and as far as I know same Bore & pistons, the HP difference comes from the fuel delivery. So it makes sense the weight would be REAL close ....

Of course a short shaft VS long shaft would be different.

[shaggy3131]

Perhaps the pistons are shorter thus lighter to create the extra 200 cc or so displacement. There are other differences in the cooling and breathing systems of the 140 as opposed to the 90 and 115. You've noticed the pronounced cowl on the 140. Same block and in most ways they are the same.

[Loki]

And the answer is......

Suzuki expands its four-stroke offerings this year with the introduction of a 140 hp unit. The first 140 hp four-stroke outboard, this engine is based on the 90/115 hp I-4 block that was introduced last year, but the 140 has been bored slightly for a 6-cubic-inch increase in displacement. What's more, the maximum operating range has been increased by 200 rpm for the 140. A new cam profile in this dual-overhead-cam engine also enhances top-end horsepower. A new clamp bracket and trim assembly help reduce weight -- it is 6 pounds lighter than the 90/115.

[Harry]

And the answer is......

Suzuki expands its four-stroke offerings this year with the introduction of a 140 hp unit. The first 140 hp four-stroke outboard, this engine is based on the 90/115 hp I-4 block that was introduced last year, but the 140 has been bored slightly for a 6-cubic-inch increase in displacement. What's more, the maximum operating range has been increased by 200 rpm for the 140. A new cam profile in this dual-overhead-cam engine also enhances top-end horsepower. A new clamp bracket and trim assembly help reduce weight -- it is 6 pounds lighter than the 90/115.



Wonder if this will be the 2008 140hp I'll be getting with my boat 006 010

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Harry, that is the 2008 motor you getting.
JRD, i hope everything works out good for you.I had problems with a boat my self few years back and i know how you feel.I had to pay a lawyer 10,000 clams to find out that the boat they sold me was 600 lbs heavier on starboard side.They swapped boats 1 1/2 year later.
Good luck.

[Loki]

And the answer is......

Suzuki expands its four-stroke offerings this year with the introduction of a 140 hp unit. The first 140 hp four-stroke outboard, this engine is based on the 90/115 hp I-4 block that was introduced last year, but the 140 has been bored slightly for a 6-cubic-inch increase in displacement. What's more, the maximum operating range has been increased by 200 rpm for the 140. A new cam profile in this dual-overhead-cam engine also enhances top-end horsepower. A new clamp bracket and trim assembly help reduce weight -- it is 6 pounds lighter than the 90/115.



Wonder if this will be the 2008 140hp I'll be getting with my boat 006 010


Harry, I'm pretty sure what I posted was when the 140 was originally introduced. I haven't heard of the 140 changing between 07 and 08.

[1967JRD]

[quote=Loki ]
And the answer is......

Suzuki expands its four-stroke offerings this year with the introduction of a 140 hp unit. The first 140 hp four-stroke outboard, this engine is based on the 90/115 hp I-4 block that was introduced last year, but the 140 has been bored slightly for a 6-cubic-inch increase in displacement. What's more, the maximum operating range has been increased by 200 rpm for the 140. A new cam profile in this dual-overhead-cam engine also enhances top-end horsepower. A new clamp bracket and trim assembly help reduce weight -- it is 6 pounds lighter than the 90/115.

[/quote

And the answer isn't!!!

Suzi website also has the weights of the 20" shaft & 25" reversed. Hopefully they are more accurate with their other information.!

[o2bfishn]

Loki is right, those spec. are same for 2007 and 2008. I got a 2007 DF140 on the same boat you're getting Harry and all can say is your going to love it. 011

o2bfishn

[Harry]

Thanks guys !!

Now back to 1967JRD

Any new news ??? 006

[Loki]

[quote=Loki ]
And the answer is......

Suzuki expands its four-stroke offerings this year with the introduction of a 140 hp unit. The first 140 hp four-stroke outboard, this engine is based on the 90/115 hp I-4 block that was introduced last year, but the 140 has been bored slightly for a 6-cubic-inch increase in displacement. What's more, the maximum operating range has been increased by 200 rpm for the 140. A new cam profile in this dual-overhead-cam engine also enhances top-end horsepower. A new clamp bracket and trim assembly help reduce weight -- it is 6 pounds lighter than the 90/115.

[/quote

And the answer isn't!!!

Suzi website also has the weights of the 20" shaft & 25" reversed. Hopefully they are more accurate with their other information.!


I didn't get that information off the Suzuki site.

[Flipper]

sorry to hear of all your troubles, with the garmin there is a setting in the menu "keel offset" set this to the distance the xducer is under the water compared to the surface or the water it should probably around 1' this will calibrate the xducer from the surface to the bottom instead of the xducer to the bottom for a correct reading. also 27 gal of gas and a livewell in the *** end of the boat is alot of weight try shifting some gear forward Flip

[1967JRD]

sorry to hear of all your troubles, with the garmin there is a setting in the menu "keel offset" set this to the distance the xducer is under the water compared to the surface or the water it should probably around 1' this will calibrate the xducer from the surface to the bottom instead of the xducer to the bottom for a correct reading. also 27 gal of gas and a livewell in the *** end of the boat is alot of weight try shifting some gear forward Flip


Thanks for the tips. The transducer just wasn't mounted properly, it was completely above the bottom of the hull.

As far as gas & livewells go, the gas tank in under the center console and the wells are mounted in the casting deck. No chance of moving those. There is no other gear stored in the rear to speak of. We are already keeping everything up front that we can.

[samurai361]

1967JRD,

I just re-read your original post. The problems you are having getting on plane are DEFINITELY attributable to having too much weight in the rear of the boat. It sounds to me that the engine your rig was equipped with is just too heavy for that boat. I don't know what you'll be able to do about that. Getting on plane quickly is a simple problem to solve: Smart Tabs.

[1967JRD]

1967JRD,

I just re-read your original post. The problems you are having getting on plane are DEFINITELY attributable to having too much weight in the rear of the boat. It sounds to me that the engine your rig was equipped with is just too heavy for that boat. I don't know what you'll be able to do about that. Getting on plane quickly is a simple problem to solve: Smart Tabs.



I'm confused. In one sentence you said that my engine combo is too heavy and there is basically nothing I can do about it, then you say it's an easy fix, smart tabs! Which is it? ;D LOL!

Yeah, not much I can about weight placement in the boat and the owner of the dealership said smart tabs also. Did any of those guys ever think "rig it right the first time so you don't need any extras"? Frankly it's going to piss me right off if it needs tabs. They should have known that in the beginning, shouldn't they?

[tommybuoy]

If too much weight is DEFINITELY the problem, as previous posted mentioned, and most previous info suggests, them Smart Tabs is NOT the SMART solution. You wouldn't take an asprin to cure a brain tumor (I hope); it won't solve the basic problem, only/maybe help to temporarily mask a problem. As I mentioned earlier, go on facts. There's only one way to solve an over weight problem: find out what's too heavy and change it. If someone screwed up outfitting the boat, get them to change it. Everything so far points to the engine being too heavy. What happened to CS and the dealer wanting to make everything right???

[lakebiker]

Ok, I'm going to add something here you're not going to like to hear. I got to see a 20JVX in person at the show last week. Only difference, this one had a side console instead of a CC, also with a 90F Suzi. So, you're not the only one that's getting this boat with that motor. That said, this particular boat to me looks like C.S.'s entry into the bass boat market, sitting low, less freeboard, less flotation, no scuppers etc. I hate to say it but somebody has too sooner or later, I don't think you got the C.S you really wanted and no tabs or relocating stuff is going to fix that boat or make you happy. I know for sure, I would not be. You might as well go ahead and try to talk to your dealer about some kind of swap for a DLX or a DLV cause I don't think you're ever going to be happy with it. Sorry, my worthless 2 cents. :(

[Fillet1]

Its also interesting that the stick steer model(JVX 20 ss) is only rated for 70hp max for the same hull?

[lakebiker]

Its also interesting that the stick steer model(JVX 20 ss) is only rated for 70hp max for the same hull?





If you had ever owned a stick steer boat, you would understand. Them damn things will kill ya and beat you to death too. I've had 2, first and last many years ago. ;)

[samurai361]

If too much weight is DEFINITELY the problem, as previous posted mentioned, and most previous info suggests, them Smart Tabs is NOT the SMART solution.

First of all, I didn't say it was DEFINITELY the problem. I said his problems getting the boat on plane were attributable to having too much weight in the rear of the boat, which may or may not be that the installed engine is simply too heavy for that boat. I haven't seen the boat, but I did look up the specs, and it seems that is the problem.


You wouldn't take an asprin to cure a brain tumor (I hope); it won't solve the basic problem, only/maybe help to temporarily mask a problem.

No, but I wouldn't ask for opinions on a boating forum either.


As I mentioned earlier, go on facts. There's only one way to solve an over weight problem: find out what's too heavy and change it.

Agreed. The issue at hand, and the reason he posted it in here, was to identify the problem correctly and solicit suggestions to remedy the problem. I don't think I would spend a lot of money hiring a lawyer to sue, or replace the engine, I would simply sell the boat. Now that he has some idea of what the problem is, he may be able to remedy it. At this point, I don't think we have all the "facts."


If someone screwed up outfitting the boat, get them to change it. Everything so far points to the engine being too heavy. What happened to CS and the dealer wanting to make everything right???

Again, I agree. But it's not always as simple as "getting them to change it." If this is something that is going to be expensive, they may not be willing to change it. If they are willing, I'd let them do it, or at least test another boat outfitted with a lighter motor before going to all the trouble. There are several options there.

As far as Smart Tabs, I did not like the way my boat came on plane and made everything slide to the back. I also did not like having to maintain close to 4000 rpms to stay on plane, so they were great for me. If you don't like the idea, don't buy them. I don't fish off your boat, or own Nauticus stock. I just think that a flat bottomed boat has a tendency to push the bow up getting on plane, and this is an easy, cheap, and effective remedy regardless of how he resolves the weight issue.

1967JRD,

When I said I didn't know what you can do about your situation, I meant I don't know what your options are with your dealer. It would seem that he would want to stand behind his boat, but we all know that not everybody does what they should do. My suggestion for Smart Tabs was just an idea to help if you end up with your boat the way you took it home. That's all.

[1967JRD]

Agreed. The issue at hand, and the reason he posted it in here, was to identify the problem correctly and solicit suggestions to remedy the problem. I don't think I would spend a lot of money hiring a lawyer to sue, or replace the engine, I would simply sell the boat. Now that he has some idea of what the problem is, he may be able to remedy it. At this point, I don't think we have all the "facts."


What "other facts" do you need? I have went farther than most would as far as "facts" on weights, placement, etc. Not sure what you mean there.

Anyway, I don't need a pissing contest over it. I just asked for some thoughts & ideas, which was exactly what I have gotten to this point. The boat is heavy in the ***, I think I have well documented that. The boat is almost overweight when I am loaded to go, I have documented that. It has 3 or 4 feet of bowrise when you are sitting still and punch it, if the water is deep enough to allow you to get going.

So it's all good, just don't need this thread turning into the Urination Olympics...

[Fillet1]

If you look at the cs specs for many different models there are some strange things there. The 1965 dlx has similar hull weight, beam and freeboard as the 20 JVX but there is an almost 600 lb difference in weight capacity:

DLX 1965

LOA .............18' 10.75"
DRAFT .............3" to 6"
BEAM .............77"
GUNNEL HEIGHT .............19"
TRANSOM HEIGHT .............15"/20"/25"
DEADRISE .............0
BOAT WEIGHT .............900 lb.
WEIGHT CAPACITY .............1710 lb.
MAX PEOPLE .............9
MAX HORSEPOWER .............90 HP

20 JVX:

LOA .............20'
DRAFT .............4"-8"
BEAM .............78"
GUNNEL HEIGHT .............19"
TRANSOM HEIGHT .............15"/20"/25"
DEADRISE .............0
BOAT WEIGHT .............850 lb.
WEIGHT CAPACITY .............1120 lb.
MAX PEOPLE .............8
MAX HORSEPOWER .............90 HP


Now, the 1765 DLX has similar hull weight, beam and freeboard to the much longer 20 JVX but still has a nearly 400lb increased capacity over the bigger JVX: Despite that, its only rated for a 75hp motor:

LOA .............16' 11"
DRAFT .............3" to 6"
BEAM .............77.25"
GUNNEL HEIGHT .............19"
TRANSOM HEIGHT .............15"20"/25"
DEADRISE .............0
BOAT WEIGHT .............800 lb.
WEIGHT CAPACITY .............1515 lb.
MAX PEOPLE .............8
MAX HORSEPOWER .............75 HP

It seems to me that the 20JVX should not be sharing the same max hp rating as the 1965 DLX. 1967JRD is a big man, the boat has a 27 gallon tank and a 400lb motor and the hull rating is questionable to begin with.

I would swap the tank out for an 18 gallon, move the console forward 3 inches, keep everything you can out of the stern of the boat and add tabs. All of this will lessen the problem. To be truly happy though, for your use (which is not bass fishing on a lake) I would sell or trade up to a dlx or dlv. They just float higher in the water and have greater capacity.

BTW I love the urination olympics line ;D

[o2bfishn]

I wonder how much foam is under the decks, 4" or 8+", this would make a differance in overall capacity.

o2bfishn

[Fillet1]

I agree. Someone in this thread suggested that the foam in the hull does not affect anything unless it is under water????? I'm not sure that is correct, because I remember when CS was advertising the new DLX (when it first had the splash guard on the bow ) as having a certain % greater flotation added to the hull so that it sat higher in the water. I dont know the physics of it though. If the deck is filled with foam and is partially below the water line does it float "higher" than the hull without the foam would? If so that would explain the JVX's lack of capacity when compared to a similar weight DLX.

[sportskiff]

HELP!!!!!!!!
Would somebody in FLORIDA PLEASE get JRD into your boats, dlv and dlx, PLEASE?????? We know his boat has issues, Lets git him rides in what he wanted/ needed, he's runnung out of time for a hull swap or much else out of the sales end of things. Time is ticking away,,,,,
And then we'll hash out this dang JVX 20' sinkhole issue..........(caues I kinda like helpin figger out stuff too!!!!)
But let's help out our new pal FIRST!!!!!!!!!!! Agreed???????
Reggie

[o2bfishn]

Thats a good idea sportskiff, I don't know if JRD has rode in a DLX or DLV but it may help. So would any other owners of the JV models adding their .02 cents about their rides.

I could be wrong but I still think there is water in hull, it takes a lot of weight to pull a boat that far down in the water and I have a hard time believing CS would rate their boats like that. I know none came out of the tranducor holes but that doesn't mean its not in there. (maybe the holes need to be drilled deeper into the hull?) 006. Just tring to help JRD

o2bfishn

[redfisherdave]

What makes a boat float is displacement, not foam. The weight of the boat compared to the weight of the water that it displaces. As long as boat weighs less than water displaced , the boat will float. Extra foam would cause the boat to weigh more therefore it would float lower in the water, having to displace more water. The foam flotation only comes in to play if boat swamps & becomes full of water.

[o2bfishn]

Agreeded about the displacement, but wouldn't more foam raise the weight capacity overall?


o2bfishn

[redfisherdave]

Additional foam would not add to total weight capacity of boat. The weight of any additional foam would take away that much weight from the total weight capacity of the boat.

[lakebiker]

HELP!!!!!!!!
Would somebody in FLORIDA PLEASE get JRD into your boats, dlv and dlx, PLEASE?????? We know his boat has issues, Lets git him rides in what he wanted/ needed, he's runnung out of time for a hull swap or much else out of the sales end of things. Time is ticking away,,,,,
And then we'll hash out this dang JVX 20' sinkhole issue..........(caues I kinda like helpin figger out stuff too!!!!)
But let's help out our new pal FIRST!!!!!!!!!!! Agreed???????
Reggie



Thank you. That's what I was trying to say. 012 012

[1967JRD]

Well here is the latest:

The dealer wants me to come by and sea trial the boat. They haven't even found out a solid reason why the motor shuts off yet! Not sure why I need to ride in my boat that hasn't been fixed!

Next thing, the service manager, while a nice guy, talks so much chit it ain't funny. They took the boat out with 3 mechanics in it to simulate how it weighs when I am fishing it, and he says "the boat rides just fine" Now remember "just fine" to him is where the water line on the transome is just starting to cover the bottom of the motor mount!

Here is a photo or 2 to refresh your memory of what that may look like:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/Skiff-in-water.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/watermark---transom2.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/jdasch/sideview.jpg

That's 14" of water the stern of that boat is drawing and they call it normal... I guess it's time to call CS back.