New DLV - General Electronic / Wiring Install Questions

[AlmostAmos]

When you run a coax cable from a flush-mounted vhf to the antenna, what are you using to seal the hole in the console (where the cable went out)?

I ordered a Digital Antenna 528-VW, it comes with 15' of coax. Are most of you cutting this or just coiling it & hanging it under the console?

How about up top where the GPS cables go down through top of the console?

I plan to run +/- wires direct from the batteries to busbars under the console & run all of my electronics off of them - w/o switches. Is this a decent idea or would you recommend a master switch?

When hooking up a 2-battery (house/start) system, would you recommend everything (electronics/lights/bilge/pump/etc.) except for the outboard to be moved to the second battery?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out best practices for this type of thing. I'm starting w/ a clean slate & would like to do things right.

Here's what I'm doing:

Garmin 540s
Icom M304 VHF (flush mounted) w/ Digital 528-VW Antenna
AM/FM/CD/MP3 (flush mounted) w/ 4 speakers
Install 2nd Battery, switch, and ACR
Install Busbars & Organize the Wiring

Any help is appreciated.

[Shakespeare]

When you run a coax cable from a flush-mounted vhf to the antenna, what are you using to seal the hole in the console (where the cable went out)?
A feed through bushing could be used similar to what the cable installer does at your house. With a little silicone sealant, it'll waterproof the intrusion. http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(rrzjhy554iy05wnansf5wc45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=3166568 Note: The bushing shown at the Ace website is for RG-6. You'll have to find one for RG8 or whatever class of wire you're using.



I ordered a Digital Antenna 528-VW, it comes with 15' of coax. Are most of you cutting this or just coiling it & hanging it under the console?
You may cut the wire to length but there are certain minimum length requirements. Your antenna specs should spell that out. If you coil the wire it should be in as large of a diameter as possible. Try to avoid tightly wound coils. It's desirable to have the least number of bends in the coax.



How about up top where the GPS cables go down through top of the console?
I personally wouldn't cut this wiring but would coil it. You especially don't want to cut transducer wiring if you're using that option.



I plan to run +/- wires direct from the batteries to busbars under the console & run all of my electronics off of them - w/o switches. Is this a decent idea or would you recommend a master switch?
Switch or no switch the following should be done; (a.) The main wire should be fused at the battery to provide protection of the feeder circuit. (b.) Anything attached to the main wire or buss bar should be fused. Most electronics have inline fuses. If you run anything else off this circuit you'll have to provide your own overcurrent protection. Master switches are a matter of owner preference. They provide a positive way to disconnect the power source to all downstream equipment. One of your following questions mentions a two battery system. You would probably want an A-B switch in conjunction with an ACR (Automatic Charging Relay) to manage these two voltage sources.



When hooking up a 2-battery (house/start) system, would you recommend everything (electronics/lights/bilge/pump/etc.) except for the outboard to be moved to the second battery?
Typically one battery is the "starting" battery and the secondary battery provides the "house" power. How you divvy it up is a matter of personal preference. I would at least have all the electronics on the secondary battery to isolate them from voltage sags when you start the motor.

[AlmostAmos]

Shakespeare - Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the help. I'll report back.

[Shakespeare]

I amended my last comment on the two battery question with a little additional info.

I kinda broad brushed everything. If you need the grimy details then ask away. ;D

Congrats on your new boat and looking forward to seeing your progress with rigging her up. *Cheers*

[AlmostAmos]

More questions...

When I run the +/- wires from the house battery up to the console, would you run them to a fuse block or a busbar?

I was thinking about putting in a +/- busbar & then running a fuse block off of this to connect everything to. Or, would I just run busbars & use inline fuses on everything connected?

Thoughts/opinions welcomed.

[Ed&Brenda]

Shake that deserves a thanks.

[Shakespeare]

More questions...

When I run the +/- wires from the house battery up to the console, would you run them to a fuse block or a busbar?

I was thinking about putting in a +/- busbar & then running a fuse block off of this to connect everything to. Or, would I just run busbars & use inline fuses on everything connected?

Thoughts/opinions welcomed.

Here's a sketch that we've been throwing around the forum from time to time showing a typical electrical distribution system. There's nothing cast in stone here and certainly things could be done a little differently, but it's a good base to start with. If you wanted to feed the breaker/fuse panel off the bussbar, then no problem there... just make sure the bussbar is sized appropriately for the potential full load. A breaker/fuse panel is probably a better method for providing circuitry to things like bilge pumps, aerators, Nav lights, and so on. It would shortly become a cluttered mess if you started inlining fuses on everything. Of course this option is more expensive. The normal electrical rigging on a skiff are those panel mounted resettable circuit breakers that are usually beneath each toggle switch. You could go at it with that approach also and feed those off your bussbar.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee78/CSO_Shakespeare/CSO_Biz/BoatWiring.jpg

[seacrets]

I run a digital antenna and they work great. The bushing on the end of the coax is much smaller than the end plug that connects to the radio so your hole will be much smaller. Slide the coax thru, fasten the plug on the fitting and then fasten to the radio. According to the manufacturer, don't cut the coax shorter than 3' and if you leave it full length, roll it up no smaller than a 12" loop. The advantage of the prefit fitting is the swr (standing wave ratio) of the antenna is always correct if you don't cut the coax. Recommend if you cut the coax have the swr checked with a meter.

[AlmostAmos]

I'm going to run some 10ga wire (+/-) from the battery terminals up to the console. They are going into a Blue Seat ST Blade Fuseblock.

What type of connectors/fuses should I use on both ends of these runs? I'm guessing I should use ring connectors for the ends - but I'm not sure about the fuse.

I'm going to install a Blue Sea Add-A-Second-Battery kit (switch & ACR) in a few weeks but I need this now for the electronics install.

[Shakespeare]

Blue Seas has a handy dandy wire size chart;

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/529

The chart says 10 ga. is good for 60 amps for an outboard type application (no engine room) @ 12 volt DC. As long as the fuse block is rated for over 60 amps, then a 60 amp main fuse at the battery will appropriate.

Branch fusing is a little more complicated. Generally each electronic component has a specification for its fuse rating. Even bilge pumps have a recommended fuse/breaker size. Always use the manufacturers recommended fuse rating. If that's not available, then size the fuse between 125% - 150% of the full load rating.

For lighting circuits, add the total wattage and divide by 12 to get your full load rating. So let's say I have 50 watts for lights;

50 / 12 = 4.2 amps. I would then use an appropriate wire to feed the circuit and fuse it according to the wire size... not necessarily the wattage.

On top of all that, circuits have to be derated for voltage drop. Here's the formula and table for that;

http://bluesea.com/viewresource/535

So bottom line is that it's always good to go a little overboard on wire size.

As far as connectors, they do make marine grade connectors and so forth. If you don't use those then I would at least use some of that liquid electrical tape coating to help prevent corrosion from intruding, where the crimp is made.

[AlmostAmos]

Do most of you run 8ga wire from the battery up to the busbar? Can you use regular crimp on heat shrink rings on these wires or do you have to use a press or something to crush the lugs/rings?

I need to go from 8ga wire to 1/4" rings for the posts on my busbar.

I'd prefer to run duplex 8ga to avoid doing this again but am unsure about terminating the wire.

Also, I plan to use #10 ring to 10ga wire to #10 ring for the connection from the busbar to the fuse block. Do most of you use ancor crimp on adhesive lined heat shrink connectors for this?

Lastly, what size wires do most electronics (gps/vhf/cd players) come prewired with? I am going to buy some ring connectors for these but don't know what sizes to buy. I'm guessing a mixture of red/blue?

Thanks for the help. I'm trying to get my shopping list together & want to grab everything @ once.

[workinprogress]

Check out this place for marine grad wire, connectors, heat shrink, etc...
http://genuinedealz.com/
For the 8ga connectors I used the crimp on lugs and used heat shrink over them, and for the smaller 10-16ga wires I used the connectors that have the heat shrink already on them. Most of the accesories I wired in came with 14-18ga wires. I would suggest getting yourself a good variety of connectors so you don't stall the project waiting on one or two connectors. Good luck.

[AlmostAmos]

WIP - Thanks for the help. I'm going to order my wires from them.

Now, DON'T LAUGH... I created a diagram of the changes I intend to make & would like everyone's input. I may be *way* off here but I think I have most of it right.

I'm not sure what size fuses to use in a few places - so I used "?A". Any ideas there? I realize I'm not using correct symbols for electrical diagrams. I used what I had!

http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/picture.php?albumid=278&pictureid=3006

[Shakespeare]

AA,

You got some serious issues with your diagram. Please don't think I'm being critical or a know it all but I see some problems that need to be addressed. I'll be glad to step you through this if you wish.

1st, You're showing an 8 gauge wire between the ground bar and the positive buss bar. This is a direct short and it means meltdown time when you flip that switch.

I'm not sure why you broke off two 10 ga. wires from the positive buss bar to the fuseblock. *006* but that should be one wire and if you reduce the wire size from the main feeder then that wire needs to be fused separately for it's capacity.

Why are you using the fuseblock to feed the electronics? The electronics should all have inline fuses. Are you removing the inline fuses?

You're not showing any fuse for the feeder to the bilge and nav lights and so forth.

Did you look at the diagram that I posted earlier in the thread? It has pretty much everything except the ACR.

Let me know if you need any help. I'd be glad to sketch up something for you.

Mike

[AlmostAmos]

I guess my diagram sucks.

The bottom busbar is for the grounds. The I was only using that to reduce the clutter on the batteries.

The busbar on the top includes negative AND positive busbars. So, that's why there are qty=2 10ga wires going from it over to the fuse block.

The bilge/nav lights/etc., were wired from the factory w/ fuses inline. So, I was going to leave that wiring intact & just move it to the new battery. I was going to move the ground for this stuff that is currently on the negative posts to the negative busbar that will be added.

Maybe I'm making this too confusing/complicated. My goal was to reduced clutter & make it clean.

[CFISHN]

I have never used a auto charge relay. *006*
I just use a switch"Perkco" with built in Alternator field disconnect . *thumbsup*
I do not have my trolling bank hooked to the motor :secret:
I have two cranking batteries on the switch ! *016*

Is their some benefit i'm missing other than not having to flip the switch ?*006*

[Shakespeare]

In a two battery system, the ACR automatically detects when you are cranking the engine and will pull the required juice (current) from the starting battery. After the motor has been started then recharging juice (current) is directed back to both batteries. In a conventional A-B switch system If you flip the switch to the starting battery then you kill the power to the house circuits. That's not exactly convenient if you have the GPS, VHF, and some tunes cranked up. You could flip the switch to both batteries to avoid that but if kind of defeats the purpose of having a dedicated starting battery and a dedicated house battery. And of course it all depends on how you have the boat wired.

[Shakespeare]

AA see post #21 of this thread; http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/showthread.php?t=5575&highlight=battery&page=3

It'll help you with selection of the fuses that protect the ACR. That info came from the BlueSeas site.

[AlmostAmos]

Guys, thanks for the help with this. I hope to get things mounted up early in the week & then I'll worry about connecting everything to the switch, acr, busbars, etc. I have so much going on right now w/ my boat my head is spinning. I have 3 weeks to get this thing 100% before I take it away for a week @ the OBX...

-AA

[AlmostAmos]

Well, I got everything mounted in my boat, now it is time to wire things up. I need to wire the following accessories:

VHF Radio
CD Player
GPS
12V

I'm wiring these to THIS (http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/products/5026) fuse block from Blue Sea or a BS busbar if they have an inline fuse. The VHF and the GPS both came with long wires from the factory, so I'm going to put a heat shrink ring terminal on these & call it good. The CD player & the 12V plug did not come with long wires so I plan to solder/heatshrink longer pieces of wire on these & use ring terminals.

Any recommendations on which connectors to use? How about wire? Do most of you just stick to red/black wire for these things? What size wire?

I need to get a shopping list together so I can follow the ^ advice & not hold up my project while waiting for connectors.

Can any of you guys give me tips on crimping these connectors on? I've never had luck with crimped connectors - but I've always used (not on boats) the crappy plastic connectors from auto parts stores.

Here is what I'm wiring if you didn't see my other posts.

Console
http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3071

Under Console
http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3070

Under Rear Deck
http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/picture.php?albumid=286&pictureid=3069