spoolin up trolling rods

[sportskiff]

Cpt Mick or Top, or whomever knows,
I got me
4 Pinnacle coastal power 6' 30-80# rods w/4 TW linecounter 190yds of 30# mono
1 Pinnacle powertip gold (roller tip) 15-40# rod 6'6" w/ Arsenal linecounter 190 yds of 30# mono
Its gonna cost more to spool em up than they cost (NOTE: Shakespeare HAS BEEN SOLD to a japanese company, reason I was told: the Cajun red line started crippling a japanese line company. As most of you know, the lines have been made in Columbia,S.C. And the website is now GONE, won't be another sale. A guy I know bought up all that was left after the last sale, gads the stuff he's got.)
I cant get anybody else the prices I paid, but if ya lookin for sumpthin let me know, I'll see what I can do.
64 dollar questions:
1. superbraid or mono? superbraid gives more strength and line
2. I got me some of them sea striker planers like Cpt Mick, and was wondering about using releases off the planers.
Yea, the stuff aint abugarcia or penn, but it still catches fish.
HELP folks,
Reggie

[Slim to None]

i'd go braid for line. for trolling it will get you deeper than mono, less drag in the water for given strength. power pro is my favorate. back it with some of your 30lbs mono and then add braid on top.

[Dave]

What number planers did ya get Reggie? I use rubber bands and double swivels, if you want to fight the fish without the planner attached - - or paper clips will work in place of double swivels. You will have to be a little careful not to get your line wrapped in the planer handline if you don't bring it in on the strike. If you are going deep, I agree that braid is the way to go, for the reason Slim gave.

Dave

[tomytek]

I also like braid and use Power Pro. I use Penn 330GTIs and Okuma T20Ls. They have huge line capacities. I use 80lb power pro on top of cheap 60lb mono backing. 80lb power pro has the same diameter as 17lb mono. You can get your lures down deep.

You can re-spool the next season using braid on the bottom half of the spool. Just spool from one reel to the other. The bottom half will have fresh line. You can get 2 season out of your line. You will save a lot of money.

I've never used sea strike planners for stripers, but I do use a planer board. This will allow be to fish lines away from the boat. I use scotty release clips on that.

[sportskiff]

Hey Top,
I got
2 #1 planers
2 # 2 planers
1 #3 planer
I got the "kits" which have the handlines and some pretty heavy handlines at that. A mistake on my part since I plan to drag em from a fishin pole. (expect for the #3 as I aint got a pole that would handle it without snappin it, or so I read.)
Paperclips, now there is something i hadnt read about. I read bout the rubberbands, releases an trolling for a while now and found this:


Super-braid lines offer an effective alternative and can be used to present lures high near the surface, at mid- range or down deep where trophy-sized game fish are often found. Keep an open mind and be ready to do some experimenting because the rewards are well worth the effort.

SUPER-BRAID ADVANTAGES
Trolling with super-braid line is simple and requires no special tackle. You can scale down and employ reels that are small in size and light in weight, so the trolling experience becomes much more sporting and enjoyable. Matched to braid-capable rods with sensitive tips and powerful butt actions, the combination delivers the knockout punch required for battling trophy bass and big bluefish. As an example, I’m fishing a Shimano Tekota 500 level-wind conventional reel filled with 300 yards of 50-pound braid and mounted on a 7-foot Lamiglas BL-7030C. It is light in the hand, very comfortable to fish with and weighs about one-third of a traditional wire-line outfit. There are dozens of similar outfits available.

Like wire line, super-braid lines have no discernable stretch, so you feel the fight of the fish with a sensitivity that is remarkable. Unlike wire, super-braid lines are virtually weightless, so the tackle can be scaled down for a more pleasurable angling experience while fighting a fish.

Unlike monofilament, super-braid lines have extremely small line diameters along with exceptional line strength. A super-braid line of 50- to 65-pound-test has a diameter similar to 12- or 15-pound-test monofilament. This fine diameter allows super-braid lines to slice the water like a razor. When trolling a 4- or 6-ounce lure, super-braid lines will run at almost the same depth as wire line.

CALCULATING THE DEPTH RANGE
The big-lipped, deep-diving plugs from Mann’s, Tsunami and Yo-Zuri are excellent choices when trolling for striped bass and blues. Seductive actions and lifelike color schemes match virtually any local bait, or present bright attractor colors, which are especially liked by bluefish. Each lure is named for the particular depth that it trolls. The Mann’s Stretch 25 trolls at 25 feet. Other models are available to troll at depths from 8 to 50 feet, including the Giganticus G-50 that is a killer for big striped bass.

Other lures can also be trolled on super-braid lines, including the popular six-arm shad rigs, but you must accurately get the lures to the exact feeding depth of the stripers and blues by marking the line every 50 feet. A permanent-ink Magic Marker is a handy way to mark the braid.

Most super-braid lines sold on the East Coast are dark in color, so line marks are hard to see; but these same lines are also available in white and high-visibility yellow, and these colors are easy to mark. After several fishing trips, the marks will fade and will need to be retouched for maximum visibility. They can also be color-coded with red, blue, green or black to help determine how much line is out. As an example, black is 100 feet, blue is 150, red is 200, green is 250.

If you troll at night, visual markers are useless. Night trollers rely on the feel of the marks slipping through their fingers to determine the amount of line needed. Stretching a small rubber band alongside the braided line and then applying several half hitches of dental floss or Gudebrod’s Bait Rigging Floss around the super-braid line and the rubber band make a “feel good” mark. When the tag end of the rubber band is clipped off, the rubber relaxes and is jammed against the braided line so the mark is tight to the line and immovable.

When trolling with a 4- to 6-ounce fully rigged, six-arm shad rig, for every 50 feet of super-braid line in the water (don’t count the line between the rod tip and the water), the lure goes down about 4 feet of trolling depth. I proved this by trolling along a sandy beach with 300 feet of super-braid line in the water. The shad rig hit the bottom when the depthfinder read 24 feet, which is 4 feet of depth for every 50 feet of line. Adding a 4-ounce drail got me to the 28-foot depth. This is virtually identical to fishing with wire line, which achieves 5 feet of depth for every 50 feet of line.

You can also catch surface-holding fish. Last year on one trip in late August, I marked bluefish at 15 feet deep along a sandy shoal. Letting out approximately 200 feet of super braid resulted in a good catch of blues, and they were caught on tackle usually thought of as summer flounder or weakfish gear. I used a 4-ounce drail, an 8-foot mono leader and an Acetta spoon. What a pleasure it was to catch these 5- to 8-pound bluefish on light tackle!

When trolling with a 4- to 6-ounce fully rigged, six-arm shad rig, for every 50 feet of super-braid line in the water (don’t count the line between the rod tip and the water), the lure goes down about 4 feet of trolling depth. I proved this by trolling along a sandy beach with 300 feet of super-braid line in the water. The shad rig hit the bottom when the depthfinder read 24 feet, which is 4 feet of depth for every 50 feet of line. Adding a 4-ounce drail got me to the 28-foot depth. This is virtually identical to fishing with wire line, which achieves 5 feet of depth for every 50 feet of line.



You can also catch surface-holding fish. Last year on one trip in late August, I marked bluefish at 15 feet deep along a sandy shoal. Letting out approximately 200 feet of super braid resulted in a good catch of blues, and they were caught on tackle usually thought of as summer flounder or weakfish gear. I used a 4-ounce drail, an 8-foot mono leader and an Acetta spoon. What a pleasure it was to catch these 5- to 8-pound bluefish on light tackle!



RIGGING UP
There are several backing-to-braid and braid-to-leader connections that have proved reliable and which also provide the strength to handle many fishing situations. You can use mono backing beneath a top-shot of 150 to 300 yards of super line and connect the two lines with Uni-knots if you double the braided line. Make five turns of the mono backing, but 10 turns of the braid and draw down carefully. Use gloves to get a firm grip on the fine-diameter super line to be sure the knot is snug and neat.
When trolling with umbrella rigs or shad rigs, the braid can be tied directly to the snap swivel, which is then clipped to the shad rig. A double-improved clinch knot is used to attach the snap swivel at the end of the braid. Most fishermen, however, will prefer to add a length of mono at the end of the main fishing line. I like to have a 15-foot mono leader and use the super-strong size No. 6 SPRO barrel swivel rated at 80-pound-test between the mono and the super braid. Double-improved clinch knots or Palomar knots are excellent connections to attach the braided line to the swivel. A three-turn clinch knot attaches the mono leader to the other eye of the swivel.



You can also use a swivel to connect the backing to the top shot of braid, using the same knots. The swivels are small enough to easily pass through the rod guides and are extremely reliable. If you don’t like the idea of swivels, no matter how small, running through the rod guides, attach the mono to the super line with Uni-knots or a five-turn surgeon’s knot. In both cases, double the braided line. A few drops of Hard As Nails will add a protective coating and help the knots flow easily through the rod guides.



TACTICS AND STRATEGY
I like to troll with a matching pair of rods and reels, pre-rigged and ready to go. I fish them angled at 90 degrees to the boat by mounting them in L-shaped outrodders to keep the lines spread apart. This makes turning maneuvers over structure or through a fleet of other trolling boats much easier with virtually no lure tangles.



A combination fishfinder/chartplotter provides essential, detailed information on the depth of the fish, rising and falling bottom contours, surface temperature breaks, and also shows a structure chart on the screen and plots a track line of the trolling pattern as it progresses over each piece of bottom structure. Striped bass and bluefish are very structure oriented and success is often measured in yards; it is essential to make several trolling passes over every area of the bottom contour wherever you mark fish.



Trolling speed and direction are important. The best speed is from 2 1/2 to 4 knots, with jumbo striped bass preferring a slower pace than schoolies and bluefish. Be sure to approach the structure from several directions until the fish show a preference pattern.



If you get strikes while making a turn, analyze what happened. The lure on the outside of the turn rises and speeds up, the inside lure slows and sinks slightly. Adjust your trolling speed and depth accordingly to match the preference of the fish.



Trolling for big fish on lightweight tackle is a dream come true for old-hand wire liners used to tackle that “weighs a ton.” Although still a relatively new concept for Northeast inshore trolling, super-braid trolling is the hot new strategy that will definitely give you that extra edge to catch a few more stripers and blues this summer and fall.

Hopefuly it worked on the cut and paste
THANKS!!!!!!!
Reggie

[Dave]

Dang, I had the wording all messed up on my earlier post. I edited it to make it a littler easier to understand.

I pull the #1 planer on my medium trolling rods and the #2's on my heavy duty offshore rods. I don't really have anything to pull the #3's. The rods can take the strain but the drags won't hold the pull of a # 3 planer - Penn Senator 113H reels on the heavy rods. I don't use any release mechanism when I fish with these planers.

My handlines (poor man's downriggers) are rigged with Old Salty #24's, but I'll run smaller planers, depending on the depth I want to run. The handline is tied off to a boat cleat and then I use the rubber band and swivel (or paper clip) to attach the rod line to the hand line. When the fish hits, the rubber band breaks and I'm free to play the fish to the boat. If it's a big, or important fish, I will pull in the handline before the fish gets anywhere near the deployed handline. If all goes well, I don't need to pull in the handline between fish. All that needs to be done is attach another rubber band and swivel/clip to the rod line and handline and let it back out. All the swivels/clips collect at the end of the handline, next to the planer. I remove them when I pull in the handline at the end of the fishing session.

Dave

[sportskiff]

Hey Top,
Please post pics of how you riggin this all up, it would sure help out .
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reggie

[Dave]

I'll post up some pics ASAP. Got a heavy fishing schedule for a day or two. If you need info right away, I posted something a few weeks ago about my "Poor man's downrigger" and I think I verbally explained what it was and how I set it out. Try searching my user name with the key word "rubber" or "downrigger". Sorry I can't help more at the moment - I'm running behind schedule and gotta get some personal work done before the day is done.

Dave

[Fayetteguy]

im a lil biased on braid for trolling, we have caught a few on braid, but times that we have had up to six trolling rods out half braid and half mono......we never had a hit on braid, i think the fish see it easier as it drags through the water. Almost like it leaves a trail.....jmo

-FG

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

I use the red color braid and i don't have any problem hooking up. As a matter of fact, red is the ONLY color i use for braid.

[Dave]

im a lil biased on braid for trolling, we have caught a few on braid, but times that we have had up to six trolling rods out half braid and half mono......we never had a hit on braid, i think the fish see it easier as it drags through the water. Almost like it leaves a trail.....jmo

-FG

Some fish are definitely more leader shy than others. What were you fishing for FG? My offshore rods have 80# Power Pro on them, but I always troll using a mono or wire leader. My king rods and medium duty trolling rods have 30# high-vis mono main line, probably as visible as braid but because it's light (small diameter) line, water resistance isn't much of a problem. I don't think I'd like the hair fine diameter of 30# braid - 80# braid is skinny enough for me ;D

Dave

[Slim to None]

if you are worried about fish seeing the braid, add a much longer leader. a uni to uni knot and like 3-5' or so of fluorocarbon will do the trick! you could even go longer than that if you feel you need to. when trolling i dont think the fish are seeing the braid easier than mono. now when fishing crystal clear flats for redfish in 18" of water, yeah they will see it. but trolling at 4-6mph the braid is going to have less resistance than mono therefor less bubble trails. i use 17lbs diameter/ 65lbs test for my grouper trolling reels. plenty of strength to pull a 15lbs grouper off a rock and still thin enough to really get a stretch 30 down past 40-45' or so.

[WannabeeFishing]

I use 6 ft. leaders with my braid except when pulling unbrella rigs. I'm afraid the leader will break before I can get turned around to retrieve it.

[Dave]

Hey Top,
Please post pics of how you riggin this all up, it would sure help out .
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reggie

This handline was purchased from Capt Joe Shutes (Morehead City) at a cost of 25.00, is 100' long, and comes complete, (minus the double-swivel) ready to hook to your planer and deploy.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_001.jpg


Here it is, hooked to a #24 Old Salty Planer. For this large planer, I slow the boat down to idle speed as I let the planer out. A short length of 1/4" rope is tied to the end of this line, which is looped around the "donut" so it doesn't just fall off the spool when I get to the end of it.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_004.jpg


Planer deployed with end looped around stern boat cleat and run through a chock to keep it from falling off the side or into the motor when making turns.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_005.jpg


You'll need a rubber band (this is a #64 but some use a stronger #10) and a double swivel to attach the trolling rod line to the planer line.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_006.jpg


Now that the planer is deployed, attach your trolling lure to the end of the trolling rod line and let out several feet of line and prepare to attach a rubber band to this line, at the location to allow the desired amount of set-back (from the planer) that you want the lure to run. The rubber band is looped around the trolling line 3 times and pulled tight to keep it in place, before clipping one end of the double swivel onto the rubber band. The other end of the swivel is attached to the planer line. http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_009.jpg



The trolling lure and line are allowed to run back until the swivel hits the end of the handline.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_014.jpg



http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_013.jpg


When a fish takes the lure, the rubber band breaks and the double swivel stays on the handline. If the strike does not result in a solid hookup of a large fish, there is no need to pull in the handline between strikes. Simply attach another double swivel and rubber band and drop it back to begin trolling again - collect the swivels at the end of the trolling session.http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_017.jpg

[Gunnar]

That's great info Dave!*Cheers*

But... I just can't help myself what the heck are you trolling for in your backyard? chipmunks? rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

Gregg

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Dave, don't listen to Gregg ;D, very informative picture gallery *thumbsup**thumbsup* *Cheers*

So how you cook chipmunks *006* *laughing**laughing*

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Dave, how you adjust or how do you know how deep the planer fishes?

[sportskiff]

OH BOY!!!!!!
Gettin the input NOW!!
THANKS TOP!!!!!!!!
Reggie *thumbsup* *thumbsup* *thumbsup* *thumbsup*

[capn luke]

I've really wanted to use this set up for spanish, but are they enough fish to break that rubber band when trolling? I always cast to them, and know they are strong, but was just wondering how well it works.

[Dave]

So how you cook chipmunks *006* *laughing**laughing*

Don't make no difference NEM, long as you use lotsa butter ;D


Dave, how you adjust or how do you know how deep the planer fishes?

Adjust the depth by the planer size, length of the handline, and the trolling speed. With 100' of line, estimating the #24 planer runs about 45 degrees at a trolling speed of 6-7 knots, I guess I'm running about 70 feet down. With a 60 foot handline, assuming it pulls at 45 degrees also, about 40 feet down. My goal is to troll somewhat above what I believe the fish are holding, as fish typically feed "up" rather than down.

When I actually locate fish or bait balls (on the FF) holding at a certain depth, I'll try and make adjustment with planer size in order to attain a desired depth. Not as complicated as it all sounds, just get the bait in the water running right, have it above the fish and usually that does the trick. Having the bait considerably below the surface is what makes it so effective as a blind trolling technique. I doubt it makes a great deal of difference if the bait swims by, 5 feet above or 10 feet above hungry fish, in a 100' deep water column. I usually run my lure 30 to 40 feet behind the planer. When I'm fishing these big planers and long, heavy duty handlines, my target is primarily Wahoo and Tuna.

I've heard it said by some of the old time charter captains that offshore, the planer is often the meat rod. The surface lines are there just to give you something to do between planer bites. ;D

Dave

[Dave]

I've really wanted to use this set up for spanish, but are they enough fish to break that rubber band when trolling? I always cast to them, and know they are strong, but was just wondering how well it works.

Don't see why not, if you use a lighter rubber band. Don't need no monster handline set-up either. Just use stout and not-so-long handline with smaller planers. To keep it even more low tech, and especially since you can expect to catch many fish in a trolling session, try using paper clips instead of double swivels in this set-up.

Dave

[Fillet1]

For bluefishing for shark baits I just use the handline like Dave has shown. Tie 100 feet of small diameter rope /cordage to the planer and tie end to stern cleat. On the eye of the back end of the planner, tie or crimp on 20 feet of heavy mono which is rigged to a Hoochie or other trolling lure.

Toss the lure in, set the planer so it digs in properly. When the angle of the planer rope in the water is more shallow than when when you set it, fish on. Pull it in by hand! We also run these on a larger Senator on a rod butt with no rod. Just crank em in with the reel in the holder.

[Harry]

Getting that time of year. Had to give Dave's Tutorial a solid bump and re-read.:cool:


This handline was purchased from Capt Joe Shutes (Morehead City) at a cost of 25.00, is 100' long, and comes complete, (minus the double-swivel) ready to hook to your planer and deploy.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_001.jpg


Here it is, hooked to a #24 Old Salty Planer. For this large planer, I slow the boat down to idle speed as I let the planer out. A short length of 1/4" rope is tied to the end of this line, which is looped around the "donut" so it doesn't just fall off the spool when I get to the end of it.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_004.jpg


Planer deployed with end looped around stern boat cleat and run through a chock to keep it from falling off the side or into the motor when making turns.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_005.jpg


You'll need a rubber band (this is a #64 but some use a stronger #10) and a double swivel to attach the trolling rod line to the planer line.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_006.jpg


Now that the planer is deployed, attach your trolling lure to the end of the trolling rod line and let out several feet of line and prepare to attach a rubber band to this line, at the location to allow the desired amount of set-back (from the planer) that you want the lure to run. The rubber band is looped around the trolling line 3 times and pulled tight to keep it in place, before clipping one end of the double swivel onto the rubber band. The other end of the swivel is attached to the planer line. http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_009.jpg



The trolling lure and line are allowed to run back until the swivel hits the end of the handline.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_014.jpg



http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_013.jpg


When a fish takes the lure, the rubber band breaks and the double swivel stays on the handline. If the strike does not result in a solid hookup of a large fish, there is no need to pull in the handline between strikes. Simply attach another double swivel and rubber band and drop it back to begin trolling again - collect the swivels at the end of the trolling session.http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/PoormansDownrigger_20081109_017.jpg

[joe28540]

Harry thanks for bringing this thread back to life.*thumbsup* A lot of interesting info.

[Ed&Brenda]

Dave what did you use at the end of the hand line for the double to hit, right before the planer?

[Dad2RMH2]

Thanks for this thread! I've used a planner before like fillet1, but I can't wait to try Dave's method.

[Dave]

Dave what did you use at the end of the hand line for the double to hit, right before the planer?

That's a luminous bead, made by Hi Seas. Probably used only because it has a large hole for the large diameter line it must slide on. You could use any kind of bead that will slip on the line.


Dave