5200 removal

[gi joe]

I can't leave well enough alone. I am going to move the console forward about 10 inches. There is already room to move the 42 gallon fuel cell forward about 12 inches, so I will actually move the fuel cell forward about 22 inches. I hope that this helps keep the bow down a little more when I am running. The question I have is does anyone have any ideas for removing the 3M 5200 marine sealant from the old mounting points? I had to use a hammer and thin blade chisel to get the leaning post up. Honestly, I don't even know why they use screws with this stuff. Any help is appreciated....Joe

[Ed&Brenda]

Debond2000 will remove it.

Read the section on "How it Works"

http://www.marineformula.com/instructions.htm

[Mersiles]

When you reattach it, try using 4200. It is more forgiving to remove than 5200 in case you need to move again.

[wblack]

Debond2000 will remove it.

Read the section on "How it Works"

http://www.marineformula.com/instructions.htm

GREAT info E&B!! Thanks!!! Never heard of this before........ *thumbsup*

[Tawn]

Keep us posted on how the console move works out. I'd like to do the same but I'll let you go first.

[gi joe]

Thanks, great stuff...Joe*thumbsup*

[Dave]

Joe, In April of this year, I moved my console forward 10" and the cooler seat 11" forward. Once I had the console loose, I used a 6" stiff blade fillet knife to remove most of the cured 5200 and a sharp 3/4" wood chisel to remove nearly all the rest - about 99% of what was there. What is left was not so objectionable to me that I felt the need to chemically remove it, especially since I couldn't find any chemicals locally that would "touch" the stuff ;D

Dave

Here's what I was left with upon lifting the console.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/ConsoleSeatMoveApr08022.jpg


This is what it looked like after using the chisel and cleaning the deck with soap and water. Notice I didn't bother with removing so much of the 5200 residue under (and inside) the console since the gas tank pad would cover it. (In this photo, I'm ready to lay down a fresh bead of 5200 and reset the console)
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc188/djerhart/ConsoleSeatMoveApr08043.jpg

[gi joe]

Uh oh, I have fouled up. I used a razor, and a thin blade chisel to cut the cured 5200 to move the console. I don't know exactly what happened, but I grabbed one front corner of the XL console, near the seat cushion, and the gel coat crumbled like an eggshell. It seems that there is an air pocket between the gel coat and the fiberglass backing. Same thing happened on the other side. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I am not buying a new console. Help.

[Harry]

Uh oh, I have fouled up. I used a razor, and a thin blade chisel to cut the cured 5200 to move the console. I don't know exactly what happened, but I grabbed one front corner of the XL console, near the seat cushion, and the gel coat crumbled like an eggshell. It seems that there is an air pocket between the gel coat and the fiberglass backing. Same thing happened on the other side. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I am not buying a new console. Help.

What are you in need of help with, the gel coat repair, or getting the console seperated from the floor ?

[Dave]

If you can take a picture and post it, that would help us see the extent of the damage. Don't panic - gelcoat/fiberglass is not difficult to repair.

Dave

[gi joe]

Need help with the gelcoat repair, the console is separated from the deck. I will post some pics as soon as I figure this photo bucket? thing out. Everything I do is a challenge.*006*

[Mersiles]

GI Joe,

Once you get the pics sorted, we can help you out with the Gel coat. In the mean time, don't worry to much about it. You will look back at this and laugh. It is much easier to fix than you think, it just takes a little time.

[gi joe]

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp116/gijoe61/boat005-1.jpg

Here is a picture of my wounded console. The other side looks similar. Any advice is appreciated. This is like going back to school, only I really want to learn now.

[brokebeach5011]

Materials

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee128/brokebeach1150/IMG_4162.jpg

The Repair
Before you begin, wash the area with soap and water and rinse it thoroughly. If the surface is oxidized, restore it with a rubbing compound so you’ll be able to match its color accurately. Once the surface is clean and dry, mark off the repair area with masking tape.
Next, gouge out small, narrow cracks (and scratches that are too deep to remove with rubbing compound) until they are wide enough to fill with gelcoat paste. A miniature grinding tool like a Dremel is ideal, but the sharp point of a can opener will work too. (If you don’t open the crack, you won’t be able to force the gelcoat into the repair area or expose enough surface area for the repair to adhere.) Then sand lightly with 220-grit sandpaper. I USE 80 GRIT FIRST. After sanding, thoroughly clean the area with acetone to remove the sanding residue and any waxes or other contaminants that might interfere with the bond between the damaged surface and gelcoat. Be sure to provide adequate ventilation and proper protection for your skin and eyes whenever you work with acetone.
The next step is to match the color of your existing gelcoat. Start with a white or neutral gelcoat paste (not resin) and begin adding tiny amounts of coloring agent. Mix several test batches of gelcoat and pigment, add hardener and allow them to cure (gelcoat changes color during the curing process). Once you’ve found an acceptable match (an exact one is nearly impossible), mix a final batch using the same ratio.
I USED EVERCOAT PREMIUM WHITE GELCOAT INSTEAD. It matched good enough for me.
Next, using a putty knife, fill the areas to be repaired with the paste you’ve mixed. Force out any air holes and be sure to overfill, as gelcoat has a tendency to shrink as it cures. When you are finished filling, seal the repair off from the air with a PVA curing agent or a piece of Saran Wrap or wax paper. YOU WILL PROBALLY BE BETTER OFF WITH THE PVA FOR THE CORNERS. You can just spray it on. – gelcoat does not cure properly when exposed to air.
Once the gelcoat has fully cured, sand the repair smooth (wet sanding works particularly well with gelcoat). You can start with 220-grit sandpaper and, for a really slick surface, finish with at least 400- or 600-grit. Finally, apply a coat of high-quality marine polish and your repair is complete. I USE 3-M POLISH WITH LOTS OF BUFFING.

[gi joe]

Can't say thank you enough. This website is an awesome resource, and only because of members willing to share their knowledge, and experiences. I will keep yall posted on my progress, or lack of progress. Off to work...Joe*thumbsup*

[gi joe]

Forgot to mention the other thing that makes the website work, the person(s) who do all the IT and tech work, THANKS....Joe*Woot*

[Mersiles]

Materials

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee128/brokebeach1150/IMG_4162.jpg

The Repair
Before you begin, wash the area with soap and water and rinse it thoroughly. If the surface is oxidized, restore it with a rubbing compound so you’ll be able to match its color accurately. Once the surface is clean and dry, mark off the repair area with masking tape.
Next, gouge out small, narrow cracks (and scratches that are too deep to remove with rubbing compound) until they are wide enough to fill with gelcoat paste. A miniature grinding tool like a Dremel is ideal, but the sharp point of a can opener will work too. (If you don’t open the crack, you won’t be able to force the gelcoat into the repair area or expose enough surface area for the repair to adhere.) Then sand lightly with 220-grit sandpaper. I USE 80 GRIT FIRST. After sanding, thoroughly clean the area with acetone to remove the sanding residue and any waxes or other contaminants that might interfere with the bond between the damaged surface and gelcoat. Be sure to provide adequate ventilation and proper protection for your skin and eyes whenever you work with acetone.
The next step is to match the color of your existing gelcoat. Start with a white or neutral gelcoat paste (not resin) and begin adding tiny amounts of coloring agent. Mix several test batches of gelcoat and pigment, add hardener and allow them to cure (gelcoat changes color during the curing process). Once you’ve found an acceptable match (an exact one is nearly impossible), mix a final batch using the same ratio.
I USED EVERCOAT PREMIUM WHITE GELCOAT INSTEAD. It matched good enough for me.
Next, using a putty knife, fill the areas to be repaired with the paste you’ve mixed. Force out any air holes and be sure to overfill, as gelcoat has a tendency to shrink as it cures. When you are finished filling, seal the repair off from the air with a PVA curing agent or a piece of Saran Wrap or wax paper. YOU WILL PROBALLY BE BETTER OFF WITH THE PVA FOR THE CORNERS. You can just spray it on. – gelcoat does not cure properly when exposed to air.
Once the gelcoat has fully cured, sand the repair smooth (wet sanding works particularly well with gelcoat). You can start with 220-grit sandpaper and, for a really slick surface, finish with at least 400- or 600-grit. Finally, apply a coat of high-quality marine polish and your repair is complete. I USE 3-M POLISH WITH LOTS OF BUFFING.


What Brokebeach said *thumbsup*

The only thing I would add is that when you start to sand after the gelcoat has cured, use a sanding block with the 220 grit to "shape" the repair. Once you have the shape, start moving up in grit only to remove the scratches from the sanding. I usually start the "wet" sanding at 800 and stop at 1200 (It doesn't take that long either). Hit it with rubbing compound and a buffer then wax. No one else will ever know.

[gi joe]

I had a friend in the fiberglass business come over and check out the console. He said that the problem is that in both of the corners, the manufacturer failed to ensure that the fiberglass was blown to the gelcoat. Usually they take a paint roller and roll over the blown glass to squeeze out any air pockets. There is about 1/8" to 3/16" gap between the gelcoat and the fiberglass. He says that I will have to fill this with marine tex first if I am to try to repair the gelcoat. He says it is definitely poor manufacturing. I am trying to remain positive.*006*

[Mersiles]

You have a void. Your friend is correct, the manufacture didn't adequately roll the mat against the gel. I am not sure if MarineTek is compatible with gelcoat but if your friend says its OK then it must be. You can also use a polyester filler for marine finishes (Bondo for boats) to fill before coating.

You need to grind the gelcoat back to where it meets the mat then fill. Not to bring you down but chances are the other corners are in the same shape.

[Dave]

There is nothing magic about "gelcoat", it's simply a hard, protective, and decorative finish over fiberglass. No doubt there was a void in the corners of your skiff, and for the reasons your friend said. Either blown or laid, the fiberglass must be worked into the inside corners carefully in order to fill them properly, and it must be done immediately upon the glass/epoxy application, while the substrate is pliable.

I'd suggest you make it easy on yourself and use white Marine Tex for the whole job. I've been using it for many years to repair gelcoat on glass boats. I've mixed it with colorant to match different colors but we are lucky, the white variety of Marine Tex is nearly a perfect match for CS white - no need to mix colors, and unless you are expert at mixing and matching colors, it is doubtful you will come up with a closer match! Apply it with the same preparation and finish schedule that brokebeach suggested and it will be AT LEAST as strong, permanent, and attractive as any gelcoat application.

I would offer one more caution about using Acetone however - it is hot stuff and will melt or dissolve any polymerized finish and will soften and even melt most plastics - won't hurt cured gelcoat or Marine Tex however. I prefer to use Naphtha (lighter fluid) for decontamination and cleanup - works fast and dries within seconds.

Mineral Spirits (paint thinner) is another option but it works slower and takes longer to dry. Mineral spirits is the stuff most often used in oil based stains. It's also used extensively in paste waxes to make the wax pliable and more easily applied. You have to be more diligent when using Mineral spirits as the stuff basically puts any wax or grease into a liquid solution so you must wipe over the area a few times with clean applications to make sure you remove all the contaminates, down to a clean surface. Acetone cuts it immediately but you have to be careful, as mentioned. Naphtha will cut wax/grease quickly as well and usually with a single application but I always give the surface one more (clean) wipe with fresh naphtha on a clean paper towel just to be sure. All will cut and remove any wax, grease, or about any normally occurring contaminates that may be present on the boat surface.

Good luck,
Dave

[Big Will]

Lets face it the guys that build our boats are renta drunks - guys who wish they could afford to do what we do.

Yep, your going to find a "holiday" in the worksmanship on these boats. (Are you reading this Carolina Skiff?) If they paid those guys a little better maybe... nah they'd just kill theirselves on something stronger than Natural Light.

Unfortunately, it happened to you G.I. Joe. I really am sorry about that. (Not that I'm the one who did the work on your console or anything, but that was a hell of a night. Ray brought in the 8 ball and that new guy kept getting into the foreman's face about the rash he was developing...

I remember [barely] how he screamed "Workman's comp. Workman's comp." over and over.) I was laughing my azz off!

Seriously, just kidding.

Have you considered taking it back to the dealer and telling him the story? Be like, "Dude, you can see it with your own eyes. This has warantee written all over it. " This is a defect in the workmanship.

Other than that my only input is if you can live with it fill that hellatious gap in with marinetex and think fondly of the guys who wish they could wet a line.

Edit: Seriously again, I know there are some good men working at CS. Unfortunately they aren't all good or equally experienced. I mean this as no slight against the men and women who put in the time and effort to make a good product.

(Damn, I'm glad my boat wasn't built by this guy on a Monday or Friday.)

http://static.pyzam.com/img/funnypics/6/pyzamgofishing.jpg

[gi joe]

Thank you all, This is much more interesting than classroom instruction. I am off on Friday, so that is when I plan on remounting the console. After that I will begin the repairs to the corners. It is disappointing that this is a brand new boat. The console is not warrantied, as it is considered an attachment. I don't know if I will look back and laugh, but if I get the improvement I am seeking, I may be able to grin;D

[al_e._gator]

I bet the console isn't made in house. More than likely it comes from an outside supplier and they were the lowest bidder.

[CFISHN]

I think I read some propiganda saying they retained skill workers for years !

I have a similar void spot in the front deck !

I'ts under the lid and in the lifted lip area !

It's covored so it's on the back burner "winter list " !

but yea it sucks !

Craig

[Fillet1]

Since someone linked to this thread recently I wanted to add a couple comments. First, all boats of different alleged "quality" can have a void. I had none on my skiff but I had one on my contender. If it is non structural (mine was on the top edge corner of my console) you can fill the whole thing with gel coat.

What you dont want to do is use marine tex or other epoxy and then attempt to gel coat over top of it. The gel does not adhere to epoxy properly. If you must "fill" the void before gelcoat, use fiberglass body filler. Try to buy stuff that is white so that you dont see it through your gel coat. ( I made that mistake by using green filler under white gel.)

Make sure the gel is throughly mixed and that you get all air bubbles out of it when you push it into the void. A thin popsicle stick works well. Also, make sure that the edges of the exising gelcoat is thoroughly scuffed and sanded and cleaned. You want to keep the repair as close to the edges as possible so that you are not sanding all day. When you sand, make sure you back the sandpaper with a block of wood. If you dont, you will end up with a wavy surface, or may sand through existing parts of the gelcoat. On my smaller repairs I actually used the body of a 12v toggle switch as a sanding block. After you get up to 1000 grit , buff with rubbing compound, which is usually the brown stuff. (I like 3m) You may see little pin holes or voids in the surface of the repair. If it bothers you, wipe it clean with acetone, and dab a bit of gel into the holes, cover with plastic and sand down again. Buff and polish and its like new.

If you are dealing with white gel and the color of the repair doesnt match exactly, it will look better over time as the sun blends and fades it together.

[creeker]

My dealer told me the only reason they use screws, is to hold the unit in place until the 5200 sets up, after that there no longer necessary.

JB