Opinions Please - Trolling & Bottom R&R

[Shakespeare]

For a combo setup, trolling and/or bottom fishing which IYO would be the best of both worlds?

Rod Length:


A. 5' 6"
B. 6' 0"
C. 6' 6"


Reel Speed Ratio:


D. Standard - 4.9:1
E. Ultra High - 6.4:1


Reel Line Capacity (lbs. Test / Yards):


F. 20/300, 25/240, 30/200
G. 25/400, 30/270, 40/240
H. 30/350, 40/310, 50/220


Much Thanks!

Mike C.

[lakebiker]

For a combo setup, trolling and/or bottom fishing which IYO would be the best of both worlds?

Rod Length:


A. 5' 6"
B. 6' 0"
C. 6' 6"


Reel Speed Ratio:


D. Standard - 4.9:1
E. Ultra High - 6.4:1


Reel Line Capacity (lbs. Test / Yards):


F. 20/300, 25/240, 30/200
G. 25/400, 30/270, 40/240
H. 30/350, 40/310, 50/220


Much Thanks!

Mike C.






IMO
6' or 6' 6"
High Speed
20 or 17/300+
Now that said, unless you need something special and you have anything in this class, it outta work. I'd not run out and buy anything if you've got anything close to what you asked about. Another worthless 2 cents from LB. ;D ;D

[Dave]

What kind of bottom fishing Shake: inshore/offshore, typical water depth, structure, and species sought? Also, if you want to keep it regional, learning mostly what folks off the Crystal Coast typically use, you might consider moving this topic to a fishing board, even though it is about "tackle" - (there are some region preferences, often for good reason) - just a thought 012

Dave

[sportskiff]

Welllll....
a simple case of 40% dynimite outta do the trick, an put LONG fuses on 'em as the stuff don't sink too good..... ;D

( more input needed here, but I can tell you about a hand crank military fone....)
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Reggie

[Shakespeare]

What kind of bottom fishing Shake: inshore/offshore, typical water depth, structure, and species sought? Also, if you want to keep it regional, learning mostly what folks off the Crystal Coast typically use, you might consider moving this topic to a fishing board, even though it is about "tackle" - (there are some region preferences, often for good reason) - just a thought 012

Dave


Off the coast of NC primarily around some of the AR's. Looking for flounder, BSB, possibly a grouper. As far as trolling, kings would be nice but someday may venture out for mahi, small tuna, etc.

MIke C.

[Dave]

Don't want to sound tooooooo discouraging but my experience at AR's around here is that they are so heavily fished that any keeper bottom fish is a rare occurrence, and on the weekends, especially good weather and sea condition days, (required for small boats such as ours) you'll have plenty of company on any of the nearshore AR's. Best bet, if you have to fish the more popular AR's is to fish the outskirts, as close to but some distance away from the crowding group of boats. The bottom fishing won't be as available but you'll be in better position to live bait or troll up a big king or other suface feeding drag screamer.

Okay back to your original question. It's gonna be hard for me because I'm of the opinion that the one fish you might want most will be very difficult to actually land with any of the options you've allowed. That fish is the grouper, or could be an amberjack or cobia, which you didn't mention. These fish are always (or often) are found near line breaking bottom structure. If you hook one of these and they are big enough, you likely won't be able to apply enough initial pressure on them to keep them out of the wreck or reef unless you have sufficient line strength to allow sufficient drag to be set. Both of these being sufficient, a rod too limber can allow a grouper to win the first 10 feet of the battle and be under a rock or in a wreck before you get a chance to apply the benefit of heavy line and tight drag.

Rod length: C (but 7' would be better)

Reel Speed Ratio: E (but only by the very narrowest of margins)

Reel Line Capacity: H (40/310)

Dave

PS - Rod weight would be (saltwater) Med action. Lighter might be better for kings. Not sure how/why you'd want to eliminate catching a "large" tuna ;D 012

Also consider that stiff rods are required for trolling any of the heavier weight in-line sinkers or any planner above the #1 size. These are favorite rigs for even the nearshore spanish and kings. Of course, another, even better option is to use downriggers to get the baits/lures down - in which case the rod can be as light weight as you want.

[Shakespeare]

Thanks guys... still looking, researching, shopping. All I have now is surf rods and some lighter weight spinning gear. Last Fall was mostlly a "get aquainted" period for me and the boat. This year I'm looking to head offshore a bit to see what I can scare up.

Mike C.

[Fillet1]

I'd go with the longer rod (6'6) (C)

High speed reel (E) (if bottom fishing more than trolling - otherwise standard)

And the smallest capacity reel (F)


But fill the reel with 40 lb braided line for the same capacity as the bigger reels and a mono topshot when trolling.

[Gunnar]

Mke,
I gotta go with B E G. If that doesn't work try sweet talking the fish.

ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO Gregg


That was an honest answer, after I put the letters up... I just couldn't help myself ;D
For trolling and bottom bouncing I prefer a short to medium length rod.
high speed reel I prefer on any set-up
The reel is probably to heavy for this set-up but there are lots of big fish that swim in the ocean, I'd hate to lose a fish of a lifetime by being spooled. thumbsup

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Shake, if you were closer, i would ask you to come in my garage and take a pick. ;D
My opinion is as 1stSgt. 7' pole M or MH and a fast reel with large amount of line.

[Shakespeare]

I needs to go get me an edumacation... I thought boat rods were typically short. 006

[Dave]

Mike, my offshore bottom rigs are decades old classic offshore trolling/bottom fishing rigs - (Penn Senator 113H reels, Penn Senator 4/0 30-50 lb class rods). These have been with me for 25 years and will continue to be my primary bottom and heavy duty trolling rigs, probably for the rest of my days. This combination has been the workhouses of deep sea head boats for 50+ years. If I only had one rig to carry offshore, trolling/bottom fishing (I'm talking 25+ out of MHC/Cape Lookout) for my money, this would be it, and I would be prepared for anything short of marlin and tuna over (say) 250 lbs. This is big fish country where we have no idea what size and species of fish might take our bait, so the extra muscle in a stiff rod may well save the day. It's a good rig for large inshore cobia, amberjack and shark as well, but that's about it for waters inside 20 miles.

You can catch kings, spanish and other near shore fish on this same rig but they're far from the best suited, IMO. Here, longer, more limber rods are more suited for the small to medium variety fish and even the largest (especially the largest) king mackerel. Inside of 20 miles, you're not likely to find, let alone hook any size dolphin, tuna, wahoo, or grouper/snapper. The rigs I use here are 7' med weight rods with
Diawa 3/0 HS reels. I do use these in my trolling spread offshore, realizing that if a big fish hits one of these rigs, I may have chase ‘em down, rather than simply make a wide slow circle as is usually all that is required if I get hit on one of the heavy rigs.

That, to me, means two separate rigs, or at least two different weight rods - but I'm not into swapping reels to suit the fishing conditions. The compromise, IMO is best made in the offshore end of the equation. One, because 90 percent of the time I can't get my skiff offshore and two, I can make do with a lighter setup offshore if I have to, but (unless I'm just meat fishing) a stiff rod is not much fun inshore.

Dave

[Shakespeare]

That, to me, means two separate rigs, or at least two different weight rods - but I'm not into swapping reels to suit the fishing conditions. The compromise, IMO is best made in the offshore end of the equation. One, because 90 percent of the time I can't get my skiff offshore and two, I can make do with a lighter setup offshore if I have to, but (unless I'm just meat fishing) a stiff rod is not much fun inshore.

Dave



Now we're getting somewhere. That makes perfect sense Dave. Now I see why you guys are advocating the longer rods.

I'm looking at the Daiwa Saltist STT40H reel. Would that reel be appropriate to cover the typcial fishing we see off the NC coast?

http://www.daiwa.com/Reel/detail.aspx?ID=60

Thanks,

MIke C.

[Dave]

Mike, though I've never picked up this reel, I think the Diawa SST would be an excellent choice, based on the looks of it and the product literature. HOWEVER, the 4/0 is more reel than you need, I think, in this day of thin braided lines. Reels hold nearly 3 times as much "braided" line as the capacity states for conventional mono line. In the case of the SST 40, it's rated to hold 660 yds of 40 lb braid. http://www.jigstop.com/store/showitem.php?Item=2174&PHPSESSID=ee521248e39bfe8a07974f252887898f

The 30 reel is all you'll ever need (with a whopping 22 lbs of drag capacity!) and (I promise) you and your mates will appreciate the smaller size in hour to hour use. http://www.eastcoasttackle.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EM2353&Category_Code=379

Back the STT 30 up with some decent quality 60 lb. mono, tie on 150 yds of 40 lb superbraid (or the like) and you're set!

Dave

[Shakespeare]

Thanks Dave.. I will most definitely give it a look. I'm heading to Gander Mtn. tomorrrow for a little window shopping. If Bass Pro was closer I'd be going there instead.

You did mean STT when you said SST didn't you ???

The STT30H (high speed) has 15.4 lbs. drag.
The STT30T (normal speed) has 22 lbs. drag.

Seems the majority of folks that have posted here advocate the high speed reel. Is the 15.4 drag still acceptable?


Mike C.

[shaggy3131]

Shake,

What are the "AR's?

Aubrey

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Shake, i have the Daiwa Saltiga 30 and i love it.If you go with daiwa go with saltiga not saltist.My brother got the saltist and he junked it in a year, broken gears and stuff.The clossest to saltist will be the Shimano torium 30 which is a great reel for the money.

[Shakespeare]

Shake,

What are the "AR's?

Aubrey


Artificial Reefs

Here's a link to the AR's off NC; http://www.ncfisheries.net/reefs/index.html

[Shakespeare]

Shake, i have the Daiwa Saltiga 30 and i love it.If you go with daiwa go with saltiga not saltist.My brother got the saltist and he junked it in a year, broken gears and stuff.The clossest to saltist will be the Shimano torium 30 which is a great reel for the money.


I hear ya NEM but I am on a budget. I wish I could get a Saltiga. I've poked around and read some reviews on the Saltist and it gets favorable marks overall with the usual few complaints that any product gets. If $$$ were no object then it would be a Penn International for the display case. :o

One of the other boards I participate in, the Saltist gets some favorable commentary. So... I don't know. 006

I will take your advice and look at the Shimano though.

Thanks for the input.

MIke C.

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

The torium 30 if not mistaking was 190 bucks.Is a very good reel and using it also for bottom fishing, trolling, jigging when i go on a party boat, and don't wanna use the expensive stuff.
On the other had, i went in February cod fishing from a party boat and i was using a 955 international with 15 lbs braid, i got a 29 lbs cod from 350 feet of water with that little reel, it took me good 15-20 minutes to get it in the boat.

[Shakespeare]

Just got back from ****'s Sporting Goods. I can't say they had an ovewhelming selection but they did have a Shimano Calcutta B, which is closely priced to the Saltist. I liked the look and feel of it and the pushbutton release.

I changed my mind... heading to Bass Pro in the morning for more "looking"

Mike C.

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Just got back from ****'s Sporting Goods. I can't say they had an ovewhelming selection but they did have a Shimano Calcutta B, which is closely priced to the Saltist. I liked the look and feel of it and the pushbutton release.

I changed my mind... heading to Bass Pro in the morning for more "looking"

Mike C.


That gray plastic release on the calcutta's is a major no no.If you have a heavy load and for some reason want to release the spool, if you press hard(the only way to release), the plastic gears get stripped, you have to thumb the spool pull it back a little to release tension and then with the same thumb pres the release button.

[Dave]

Sorry it took so long to get back here. Yep, the STT. The gear ratio, IMO is less important than is a heavy drag, when I consider "best of both worlds".

Super fast retrieve is important in certain circumstances but I've made do with 4.9 or less without ever remembering a lost fish because of it. Since I've never had anything faster, I can say for sure if I would think it were a big deal with my kind of fishing. There is an advantage with bottom fishing, especially when bringing up empty hooks to re-bait and quickly getting back down. Smaller gear ratio means greater torque and drag, exactly what you may need if you do hook one of them grupas you've got your sights on. Same goes for heavy, diving fish caught around structure - I'm thinking cobia, AJ's. Once I get a bottom fish clear of bottom danger, I tend to bring 'em up relatively slow anyway, to let 'em have a better chance of pressurizing during the ascent.

If it were me, I would jump on the heavier drag and give up some retrieve speed. If you're concerned about those speedy kings, they're usual routine is to scream line off going away from the boat and spend themselves fairly quickly. Mature kings usually do some head shaking, but relatively slow swimming, either way out and parallel to the boat or in a wide circle, as you "ease" them toward the boat, slowly gaining line. Trying to horse them often results in pulled hooks, unless you've been lucky enough to get a hook around the jawbone. For kings, I don't use but the lightest of drags and I don't feel like I need a fast retrieve reel.

Dave

[Shakespeare]

That gray plastic release on the calcutta's is a major no no.If you have a heavy load and for some reason want to release the spool, if you press hard(the only way to release), the plastic gears get stripped, you have to thumb the spool pull it back a little to release tension and then with the same thumb pres the release button.
Now THAT'S what I call some very useful information! Thank's NEM for bringing that little tidbit to my attention. I owe ya one 012

Dave, thank you for the explanation and the benefit of your experience. thumbsup I think I need a mini-Sarge to put in my tackle box to take fishing with me LOL

Mike C.

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

I have 3 of those calcuttas and every time they break it's 50 bucks to fix them 004 004, now i have them in a show case.

[lakebiker]

OK, you're back from BassPro. What did ya buy? 006 006 ;D ;D

[Capt. Mick]

Look at the Shimano speedmaster iv on a Jarvis walker tuff tip. The best set up there is for live bait trolling for Kings, pulling small planers for Spanish and Blues, and good for bottom dwellers. We have placed over and over and over again in King tournaments using this combo exclusively. Whole set up should be about $160.00 new

[Shakespeare]

OK, you're back from BassPro. What did ya buy? 006 006 ;D ;D


Well ??? I walked out with 2 Daiwa Beefsticks. They're 6 1/2 foot M-H action. I also got a couple of planer kits. They had a Daiwa STT20H reel, so I got an idea of the look and feel of those Saltist's. They didn't have any 30's in stock so still pondering over that a bit. I need to get moving here if I'm going to get rigged up for next weekend. Sheesh! Where does the time go?

Mike

[Shakespeare]

Look at the Shimano speedmaster iv on a Jarvis walker tuff tip. The best set up there is for live bait trolling for Kings, pulling small planers for Spanish and Blues, and good for bottom dwellers. We have placed over and over and over again in King tournaments using this combo exclusively. Whole set up should be about $160.00 new


Capt. Mick... that's a good looking reel. I couldn't find it in my Cabelas catalog but looked at it on the Shimano website.

http://fish.shimano.com/catalog/fish/products/group_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=25343743020 36634&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181270&bmUID=1205614888763

As you have probably read I've already committed myself to the rods. So.. I'll plug away on the reel research with your kind advice.

Thanks,

Mike C.

[Capt. Mick]

Mike - The price on the Speedmasters is 109.99. That is same price they have been for years. IMHO the best reel for the money made.l

[lakebiker]

Read Capt Mick's fishing report. Might just want to take ya spinning stuff with you on this trip. 014

[Shakespeare]

Read Capt Mick's fishing report. Might just want to take ya spinning stuff with you on this trip. 014


Yeah... I saw that... reds so thick you could cross the canal on foot withoug getting wet. ;D 017

I could only be so lucky.

Mike

[Shakespeare]

009 Ok fellas, here's the latest.

As mentioned previously, I picked up a couple of Beefsticks at Bass Pro. This morning I ordered the Saltist STT30TH. At the time of discussion with 1stSarge about drag ratings and whatnot I overlooked the high speed model with 20 lbs. of drag. So now I have the best of both worlds.

From everyone's suggestions and comments I gathered that I should have a long stick, 6 1/2 feet or better, a high speed reel, and a high drag rating.

NEM and Capt. Mick... I didn't ignore your reel suggestions and I didn't make my purchase decision lightly. I had the opportunity the hold the Saltist and it appealed to me greatly. Secondly, I'm running out of time and wanted/needed to move on this and unfortunately wasn't able to adequately research the models you guys suggested. I'm sure in the future that I'll be adding to the arsenal and I'll be able to do a better job evaluating those units. I thank you none the less.

I also purchased these rod holders from Cabelas;

360HT Rod Holder with Flush Mount Base
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=null-cat21300_TGP&id=0012292012829a&navCount=1&podId=0012292&parentId=cat21300&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=8IS&rid=
&parentType=index&indexId=cat21300&hasJS=true&_requestid=25210)

I wanted to thank everyone for their input. Now, if the fishing gods will hold me in favor, MAYBE I'll be able to do a little bottom fishing or trolling this upcoming Easter weekend. 017

Mike C.

[Capt. Mick]

Shake - Congrats on your new combos. Rods and reels are to a big personal like or dislike thing. I happen to like a lot. Just got in from the garage and at this count I have 17 rods and reels. From baitcasters to spinners to speedmasters to 50 wides.

135 king rigs with skirts
100 king rig naked
30 double pogie rigs
50 carolina rigs for drum
200 or so carolina rigs for flounder
50 or so grouper rigs

and on and on.........Boring winter I guess

[Dave]

Now, if the fishing gods will hold me in favor, MAYBE I'll be able to do a little bottom fishing or trolling this upcoming Easter weekend. 017


I heard that 014 If they don't, I'll letcha hang your hook on one of by bow cleats so's you can test her out ;D

Dave

[Dave]

Rods and reels are to a big personal like or dislike thing.

Truer words were never spoken!



Just got in from the garage and at this count I have 17 rods and reels. From baitcasters to spinners to speedmasters to 50 wides.

135 king rigs with skirts
100 king rig naked
30 double pogie rigs
50 carolina rigs for drum
200 or so carolina rigs for flounder
50 or so grouper rigs

and on and on.........Boring winter I guess


Capt, I'll have to let my wife read that so she won't keep thinking I'm "over the top" when it comes to being prepared for every opportunity :o 012

[bobreeves]

135 king rigs with skirts
100 king rig naked
30 double pogie rigs
50 carolina rigs for drum
200 or so carolina rigs for flounder
50 or so grouper rigs

Capt Mick: "Will you hold my tackle box for a minute while I ..."

Answer: "NO!" 001

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

Shake, i can't believe you man, now my Shimano stock is gonna hit rock bottom. 004 ;D ;D ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

Congrats on your "final desision", i'm sure you'l be happy.

[Shakespeare]

Shaggy asked this in another topic.


How did the new Saltiga reel do at MHC this weekend? What line did you use? I'm in the market, also. Too many choices.

Yesterday (Sunday) was the only day I could get out near shore. We had 10-20 NNE winds but that kept the water somewhat flat coming off the southern facing Atlantic Beach. The day prior it was 20-30mph wind from the south [OUCH 001 ]. Anyway, I put a #1 planer on the rod and reel and trolled for a couple hours along AB and Shackleford Bight. The water temperature was 56 deg. so my hopes weren't optimistic to say the least. Last week they said the kings were jumping in the boats. [Sheesh]. Anyway, I was pleased with the new rod and reel setup. I like the saltist because it feels good in the hand and for me it was simple to operate. For some reason open reels have always presented a challenge to me, but I didn't feel that way with the Saltist. I took to it immediately. I wasn't able to do any bottom fishing around any of the AR's due to rough seas, but we'll get 'em next time.

The setup: I back filled it with 100 yards of 40lb. mono then 125 yards of 40 lb. SuperBraid and put a 100 lb. snap swivel on the end. I originally attempted to back fill it with 60 lb. mono, but it filled the dang reel up and I didn't have enough room for the braid. Anyway, so far I'm happy with it. It cleaned up nice with a freshwater rinse and polished with a little WD-40.

Mike C.