Maneuvering in Tight Spots / Eliminating Rear-End Squat

[angus99]

I tow with an '06 Tundra double cab that has a long wheelbase. To put my 198 DLV where we have to store it, I need to be able to maneuver the trailer in some pretty tight places (down a hill, around a corner, on gravel with trees on both sides). Has anybody tried using a front-mounted trailer hitch for this? Just wondered how you like it and if it increases maneuverability as much as it looks like it would?

Also, the 332 lbs of tongue weight on my trailer really causes the rear end of the Tundra to squat. I'm thinking of installing some Firestone air bags to compensate. Anyone use them and do they work well for trailing a skiff?

Thanks!

[OBX Hokie]

Angus,

Are you talking about a cab mounted hitch like 5th wheel trailers? I don't understand.

As far as the tongue weight, a couple of members have posted "how to's" on moving the trailer axle to balance the weight better. Certainly would be cheaper than air bags. Just a thought.

My boat trailered a little nose down at first, but that was a function of the height of the hitch ball which I raised by about 3-4 inches.

[yknot]

you can rig in some cases a square 2" recever on the front of a truck, just like some folks attach a carrier up there for poles and coolers. doing so should give you sharper turning since the swing of the tow truck is faster-shorter than when on the back.
I would also move the trailer wheels up to reduce the weight

[throrope]

. . . Also, the 332 lbs of tongue weight on my trailer really causes the rear end of the Tundra to squat . . .

We had the opposite problem, not enough weight. I moved the bow stop about three inches closer to the front and consequently the boat too. Now all is well. You may have similar success by moving the stop and boat back.

BTW, JoeT and quiknet are looking at the same as yours and may appreciate your thoughts.
http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/showthread.php?13835-Buying-a-1980-DLV-soon-...-need-a-little-advice

Good luck and keep us posted.

[corl]

A front ball hitch makes backing up your trailer a snap. I had one on my old truck. Now I have 2 receivers welded into my front bumper that I use for a rod holder and ice chest for surf fishing. I put airbags on my Dodge RAM 1500 4X4 when I got it in 2006. I towed a 7000 lb racecar trailer with it and it is terrific. It adjusts height and adds 1000 lb load capacity. I love the airbags. Helps off road as well. Mine are manually adjusted as I do not have an on board air compressor. Mine are "Air Lift" and I installed them myself.

[tarpleyg]

http://www.hitchesonline.com/toyota_front_end.htm

These front mounted receiver hitches are actually pretty common and, from what I understand, really make moving a trailer around an easy deal. I've never used one myself but I can definitely see how it would make it much simpler. Only downside is you have to unhook and move the truck to rehook to move it into place.

Greg

[Riverine1969]

Angus, what OBX, yknot, and throrope said. I pull a CS 24 (old version of 2480 DLX) easily with a 2006 Tacoma with tow package (6,500 pound tow capacity) with no problems. (Note: only last night, with E-mails to another Toyota Tundra owner, I found out that the regular 2006 Tacoma (smaller than the Tundra) is rated to tow 3,500 pounds, and the factory tow package bumps that capacity up to 6,500 pounds. The standard Tundra tow rating is 5,000 pounds, not sure what the factory tow package bumps the tow rating up to, but be sure to buy the tow package, if ordering a new Toyota.)

I'd go to someplace with truck scales, and weigh my trailer axel(s) hooked up, then drop the trailer and weigh it for total weight. Subtract to find tongue weight. I believe 10% of rig weight is all you need on the trailer tongue. My axel was mounted too far back, and I had to move it forward, to get proper weight distribution.

As far as backing your rig, you might try this before investing on a front mounted tow hitch.

I used to have to spot a 42 trailer inside a building, two bays sideways from the door...........a real bear to do. With the trailer against the load dock, there was about 8 feet between the front of my tractor, and the building. Also, there was a chain link fence about 50 feet in front of the door.......it was all about angles.

The first time I tried, it took 45 minutes to get it in, without tearing something up. The next night, I brought a lumber crayon and can of spray paint with me......in your case, (on the ground) you might want to use the cans of spray paint used to mark the ground, for underground lines.......get it at Lowes. Here is what I did..........your mileage may vary.

The second night, I got the trailer in, then marked on the concrete where my front and back tractor tires were, parked with the cab at a sharp angle to the trailer, with the lumber crayon. This gave me a visual reference I could see, looking down, with the window rolled down, once I had marked the concrete with paint. (not yet, but later.)

Next, I grabbed the evening Supervisor, and brought him over to where he wanted the trailer parked. I handed him the crayon, and asked him to mark the concrete every two feet, three inches away from my left rear trailer tire, as I pulled the trailor out of the building.

As tight as the place was, I needed to pull half way out, stop and put the brake on, then turn the steering from lock to lock, left to right. At that position, I had the Supervisor make a prominent X, directly below my position in the cab, looking straight down, much heavier than the other marks.

Once I had fought the manual steering on the old MH Series Mack from lock to lock without rolling, I then continued out the door, with the supervisor marking the concrete next to the left back trailer tire.

As soon as the trailer tire was at the door, I had to stop the second time, and again crank the manual steering tractor lock to lock. That trailer tire position was also prominently marked with the crayon.

I then backed the trailer back in the second time, just looking out the window at the marks. At each 'X', I'd stop, turn the steering axel lock to lock, then continue backing, until parked properly.

Then, I dropped the trailer legs, unhocked the 5th wheel and air/electric, then pulled the tractor out of the building.
Then I went back inside with a can of spray paint, and marked the two 'X' spots.

From then on, I could pull around the building, get out of the tractor and place two fist sized rocks painted white that I kept for the purpose, putting one on each 'X', showing where to stop, and turn the steering wheel lock to lock. I know this is tedious.......stay with me.

The next time you are ready to pull your boat out, have someone mark with spray paint (on grass) or chalk (on concrete or asphalt, so it will wash off easily) right beside your driver side trailer tire, as you pull your rig out. Wherever (if) you change your trucks direction, prominently mark that spot..........both where your trailer tire is, and directly under your driver side window.

Now, back the rig in again. Use whatever you need to mark the 'X' spots with, that you can see easily, and the wind won't blow around.



You may want to lay a patio block at any 'X' points, to leave permanently, so you can see them easily. Go in and out several times as you do this, and refine your approach if needed, then mark. After you've done this a few times, all you'll need are the turn point marks, not a continous dotted line. I think you'll find this to be a big help.

[throrope]

Yea what Riverine1969 said.

We have a zig zag route to back ours under the house in OBX. After taking out a tail light and transducer at night, I now leave the boat out front and park it the next morning.

[angus99]

First, thanks to all of you for the good advice.

OBX Hokie & yknot, yes it's the Hidden Hitch that bolts onto the frame and hides under the front bumper.

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/attachments/interior-and-exterior/33741d1216417169-tundra-front-hitch-skidplate-interference-100_4713a.jpg

throrope, I actually did as you suggested yesterday. Got the boat back as far as I could without having the transom overhang the bunks and then weighed the tongue at 332 lbs. (Before that, it must have been well over 400 lbs because my bathroom scale was maxed out before it ever hit bottom.) So, I think it's time to move the axle forward one position and see if that makes a difference.

coryl and greg, thanks for the insights. Good to know these things are maneuverable with trucks.

riverine, I've tried a variation of your method with sticks. Unfortunately, it's a gravel driveway with my wife's garden on both sides and she'd wig out if I painted lines anywhere near. It's just too tight, twisting and steep to back a long wheelbase truck and long wheelbase trailer down. I used a tractor once with a front-mounted hitch to back a shorter trailer down this same driveway and it worked pretty well. (Wish I hadn't sold the tractor :'(.)

Y'all are the best.

[OBX Hokie]

Sounds like you have a plan! Front mounted hitch for getting down that driveway and moving the axle a little. Good luck! Keep us appraised of your efforts.

[mr.jhlove]

I have a 2008 tundra and have a front hitch, mounted mine for rod rack/cooler basket for using at the outer banks, works great for maneuvering a trailer in a tight spot too. You can see where its going better and your front axle of the truck becomes the front axle of the boat if that makes sense so it turns just like your truck would turn with no trailer at all if that makes sense. Just watch your trucks back end but at the same time since the turned wheels are midwaysthey back wheels track fairly true. The big drawback is the time it takes to unhook and rehook but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Sounds like ya fixed the tongue weight issue. Good luck!

[angus99]

I have a 2008 tundra and have a front hitch, mounted mine for rod rack/cooler basket for using at the outer banks, works great for maneuvering a trailer in a tight spot too. You can see where its going better and your front axle of the truck becomes the front axle of the boat if that makes sense so it turns just like your truck would turn with no trailer at all if that makes sense. Just watch your trucks back end but at the same time since the turned wheels are midwaysthey back wheels track fairly true. The big drawback is the time it takes to unhook and rehook but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Sounds like ya fixed the tongue weight issue. Good luck!

Thanks, great to hear these work with Tundras-even though you have a newer, cooler truck ;D. Any idea what kind of tongue weight you're carrying with that rig? It's very similar to mine and I was just curious.

[mr.jhlove]

Tongue weight is around 350 lbs.

Thanks for the compliments on the truck. Toyota should've made the tundras bigger before 2007. The only drawback is mileage...16.5 empty.

Where ya lookin at buyin your hitch? I'm pretty certain I bought my front mount from jcwhitney, not sure on the older style tundras but on the newer ones it mounts really simple with no drilling.

[angus99]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a front-mounted Hidden Hitch from autopartsdealer.com. I also scored a firestone airbag kit from the same place. Pretty competitive prices and they have them in stock, which no one locally did. It'll probably take me a couple weeks to get around to installing them, but I'll post back how it works.

I guess I shouldn't worry about the 332 lbs of tongue weight, but it sure is heavier than I'm used to. I might just move the axle ahead one position and see if how it affects handling.